The ATF

[JohnMOhio]

There have been a number of places that are advocating the abolishment of the ATF, Like any organization, the leadership controls how the group functions. I have said this numerous times that the government itself is not the problem it is those that have been elected to office or appointed. I would contend that those heading the ATF, like the FBI and other branches have what is termed the Dark State people in charge that were put in charge based on a specific goal.

I contend the turmoil, lawlessness, rioting etc was condoned thinking that it would become so bad that they could declare Martial Law. The only thing that kept this from happening was the fact that we have a 2nd Amendment and an armed populace. Disarm the populace and you no long have a Republic.

Food for thought: Would our military follow orders or support We The People?

Just some random thoughts. What do you think?

[Allen]

Reagan wanted to abolish the BATF and place those agents as border patrol. That didn't happen and most every administration since has wanted to keep the ATF for gun confiscation, over reach of authority, and full government control.

The NRA used to refer to them as government terrorist and they were right. Like so many in political/government positions they aren't accountable for their actions and are led to believe that they are the law.

As far as our military going door to door enforcing police power/martial law, arresting citizens who disobey the commands of the government, no, I don't feel our own troops would do that fully but NATO members from other countries could be brought in and told to act. These people would be from foreign countries so our well being, our pleading, our concerns, would mean nothing to them. Likewise our troops could be sent to other countries that use NATO troops to do the same to them.

I see the ATF, DOJ, FBI, IRS, and other depts as being basically the same and exercising powers they don't have, no one stopping them, doing what they wish with little to no direction or planning and no one being allowed to question their actions (like Jan 6th). All of these departments are way overdue to be scrapped and new agencies (where needed) be established with absolutely none of the former members being employed.

Just my 2 cents worth though of course.

[Oyaji]

atf thugs.jpg

[JohnMOhio]

The question then becomes, who would you replace them with. Not all those in the ranks are the type that need thinning out of the ranks. Removing them all would have an inexperienced group to do the work. Quality would be basic in most cases. Thus if in their work they are responsible for US security, it would definitely suffer. Somehow you have to weed them out. Another question is How? Fire the top three to five supervisors in each department? Possibly promote the middle tier troops. Maybe the middle tier know who the bad ones that need to go.

[Allen]

The question then becomes, who would you replace them with. Not all those in the ranks are the type that need thinning out of the ranks. Removing them all would have an inexperienced group to do the work. Quality would be basic in most cases. Thus if in their work they are responsible for US security, it would definitely suffer. Somehow you have to weed them out. Another question is How? Fire the top three to five supervisors in each department? Possibly promote the middle tier troops. Maybe the middle tier know who the bad ones that need to go.

I truly believe Reagan's thoughts were "they aren't needed", at least not for what they turned out to be.

[Johnny P]

Local shop had not seen them in about 5 years, and they showed up about 3 or 4 months ago. This time they didn't do just a cursory check of the business, but set up a table and spent about a week going over their records. In the thousands of guns handle they found 2 minor infractions. They were scheduled to go to the state capital for a review of the findings sometime in January/February of this year, but have heard nothing further.
To them a minor clerical error sends up red flags. If a dealer is consistently breaking the law in their record keeping is one thing, but a missed check mark in something else.

[k arga]

ATF is supposed to be tax collectors only, they got way out of hand with Reagan

[lyman]

ATF was somewhat neutered a while back, the Agents work for one branch, or dept, and the inspectors work for DOJ, and the NFA and tracing centers are mixed up too,

either way, a lot of what they do is redundant, as in why have Agents when the FBI or DHS could do the same?


and remember the inspectors don't just inspect FFL's they also do alcohol and tobacco,,,

[barretcreek]

Knew a 'smith went into wine making. Said he had no idea what 'holes they were.

During Obama, neighbor asked a ret'd Marine W/O about troops going d2d; said half would.

[lyman]

Knew a 'smith went into wine making. Said he had no idea what 'holes they were.

During Obama, neighbor asked a ret'd Marine W/O about troops going d2d; said half would.

I have heard similar numbers when talking to some older police officers

[JohnMOhio]

Considering that 50% might go door to door, why do you suppose that might happen. Following orders? Why would that 50% that would consider it do not consider it as an unlawful order since they took an oath to protect the Constitution. Is it that today's younger recruits and the same with the police officers, have not been told how to think but what to think. Have the youth of today that we depend upon been that indoctrinated? I know that our form of government is not perfect. The Constitution even states "in order to form a more perfect union." Since that was adopted, thousand of laws have been written and activated both federal and state and down to the County and City. More random thoughts on my part.

[Allen]

Considering that 50% might go door to door, why do you suppose that might happen. Following orders? Why would that 50% that would consider it do not consider it as an unlawful order since they took an oath to protect the Constitution. Is it that today's younger recruits and the same with the police officers, have not been told how to think but what to think. Have the youth of today that we depend upon been that indoctrinated? I know that our form of government is not perfect. The Constitution even states "in order to form a more perfect union." Since that was adopted, thousand of laws have been written and activated both federal and state and down to the County and City. More random thoughts on my part.

Because of so many here that don't belong here. Family and American loyalty is fading due to easy divorce, welfare, woke chit, lack of religion/family values, lawlessness and countless other reasons all to be expected with such gross overpopulation. The lifestyle we grew up with will end with us and our children. Future generations will be dramatically different. This is something I've thought about all my life and I feel many solders, even in the future will not follow through though. In that regard what else would a corrupt gov't do? Get NATO troops here who don't care about our well being and send our troops to foreign countries to do the same that their solders wouldn't do?

I suppose if it ever gets that bad our National Guard division will be gone or change into other priorities. Our guns and gun rights will have long since been taken away too.

In other words, we'll become like other countries.

[k arga]

The ones that would go house to house will move up in rank, power makes people do a lot of things.

[Allen]

The ones that would go house to house will move up in rank, power makes people do a lot of things.

+1

I heard that the Capitol policeman who shot the unarmed lady protestor on Jan 6th was promoted afterwards instead of being fired and arrested for murder. May not be true (as everything else) but I read an article on it).