Last ditch ?? Safe to fire ??

[Emri]

A customer brought in what I call one of the "last ditch" rifles. It is very crude looking. Welded barrel bands, rough surfaces, etc. Are these cast receivers like some of the German 98's that are not strong ??

Thanks,

Emri

[dave]

Never heard of a cast reciever K98k! Jap trainers had them, doubt service rifles, 'last ditch' or not had then either! That aside, I would not shoot it, I would buy a decent example to shoot and put it in collection. Some last ditch have hi collector value I understand.

[usmc69]

My response would be "Why shoot it?"

[Guamsst]

There are two types of last ditch. The book snobs version as defined by I believe Honeycutt which is a Naval Special rifle with a cast iron receiver. Then there is what the rest of the collecting and shooting world refers to as last ditch which is a rifle missing the gadgets and nice finish of early rifles and usually having a wooden buttplate.

Chances are VERY strong that your customer has a regular late war rifle. The cast receivers are VERY hard to come by. The big difference visually is that the cast receiver is thicker and the bolt locks into the barrel on closing instead of locking into the receiver. If you are unsure, it is best not to shoot it and research cast receiver naval special rifles and training rifles before making a decision to shoot it. Training rifles should never be fired with live ammo....EVER!

Crude as they may look, late war rifles are still good rifles. The same care was put into the metal work where it needed to be but all unnecessary steps were left out. A rifle with smooth barrel and perfect bluing is no more deadly than the same rifle with milling marks and a wood buttplate. But, fit, finish, bluing, adjustable sights, monopods, screws, cleaning rods, buttplates....etc take time, money and material that were critical in the last year or so of the war.

[Emri]

Thanks guys. My customer doesn't know what he wants to do with it. My response was the same as usmc69, "Why?". Thanks Guamsst for the info. Now I know this one is not cast as the barrel is screwed in and the locking surfaces are part of the receiver. I had heard about cast receivers, but wasn't sure as Jap rifles are not my area of study. I wouldn't shoot a National Ordnance or Santa Fe O3-A3 as I have seen what can happen with a cast receiver.

[psteinmayer]

My response would be "Why not shoot it?" I shoot every rifle I have at one point or another. Now, I am not a serious collector, preferring to own one or two of each rifle that I'm interested in... but I do understand about serious collecting. If that were the case, then I would want pristine examples, and never fire them. I guess it boils down to what one wants it for?

[John Sukey]

Then there are the drill rifles which were only intended to shoot blanks.
Not sure about this, but I believe the drill rifles had the tang cast as part of the reciever instead of as a seperate piece

[Guamsst]

John, the training rifles were cobbled together by MANY different makers. I have seen very little consistency but I think you may be right. I am not at home so can't check right now.

It is my firm belief that the better fit and finished training rifles are to blame for most of the fear about Jap rifles blowing up. If you can't read Kanji and don't know what it is then why wouldn't you think it was just a late war rifle? My training rifles range from very realistic to almost comical.

[Bob in Maine]

Just shot my series 27 T99. No problems.

[JimF]

I've shot (with my own handloads), what MOST people call a "Last Ditch" rifle in my modest collection.
Actually, it is a Type 99, Series 10, Torrimatsu factory of Nagoya Arsenal, rifle.
CRUDE to be sure, but it is NOT a "last-ditch"!
I call it my "Next-to-the-last ditch, last-ditch" rifle! --Jim

[Michaelp]

Best question is why mess with it?
I'm too old and survived too many stupid events that I don't need anymore.
Tie it to a tree-that just proves it didn't let go -that time.
Compulsively shoot everything you got. Good for you.
At this point I prefer not to go with "probably" ok.
Same - same a low number 03 I got.
Perfectly OK with a few wall hanging collector pieces.
I picked up such a well made looking trainer the other day, that it could fool somebody into firing it.

[Matt Anthony]

Best question is why mess with it?
I'm too old and survived too many stupid events that I don't need anymore.
Tie it to a tree-that just proves it didn't let go -that time.
Compulsively shoot everything you got. Good for you.
At this point I prefer not to go with "probably" ok.
Same - same a low number 03 I got.
Perfectly OK with a few wall hanging collector pieces.
I picked up such a well made looking trainer the other day, that it could fool somebody into firing it.

The T99 was and still could be one of the strongest rifle action in history. The Japaneze copied the Mauser action and the did their improvements to make it stronger. I have one and made it a great varmint rifle in 22-250. Timney trigger, douglas barrel and garrett aculite stock. Glass is now a 36X leupold with Burris rings. You can read all about the Arisaka actions on many websites and see they were not junk.
Matt

[Michaelp]

I'm 67 years old.
I got my 1st T99 and bayonet when I was 14. Still got it.

Owned several of most types over the years.
Got maybe 50 today. Including an outstanding sporter.
Been reading all that stuff all my life.
Never said they were junk, but I prefer not to chance one of those very late gob welded safety knobs getting imbedded in my gourd.

I have used up a lot of my allotted luck over the years and have come to respect that fact.

[Guamsst]

I have found most of the legends of guns that blow up, are just legend. That being said, while I have more faith in these guns than MichaelP, his points are still valid. On the other hand, a brand new rifle can blow up in your face too.

It seems to me though that every person I know who blew up a gun either talked it up into being more of a disaster than it really was....and/or....did something extremely stupid that caused the destruction.

I also recently talked to a guy who swore that on Eeeji Jeema (Iwo Jima) "They was dead Japs all over the place what had the bolt of them junk rifles sticking out of they head where they blowed up on em". When dealing with scientificated evidence like that, it is easy to see why there is such a phobia against shooting Jap rifles.