M1887 Hospital Corps Knife

[Dick Hosmer]

Just bought one, possibly for considerably more than I should have, to fill an excellent scabbard which I have had for over 40 years.

It is either a treasure of a sleeper, or a pretty damn well-done repro (I was aware that repros exist but not all of their precise differences). Workmanship is VERY VERY good, it just doesn't, IMHO, exhibit sufficient age.

I broke my own rule of doing the research first - but, sometimes you don't have a lot of time.

From subsequent picture-searching around the net, have discovered that there are a lot of minor variables, especially in the etching - which makes me suspect they were either hand done, or each master screen only lasted for so many applications. Dixie was kind enough to add an extra line to their repros, so they could never be taken for real.

Does anyone in this forum have sufficient knowledge to say "yea" or "nay" if I published some pictures? Do NOT worry about offending me - I want an honest answer, either way.

Thanks in advance!

[amber]

Dick,

Your mail box is full. If you send me your regular email address, I may be able to send you a pix of the 1887 I once owned. It is not a great picture, but it may help. SEND YOUR ADDRESS TO: krag@roadrunner.com

Joe

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks - it is richardahosmer@comcast.net

The internal mail system here is about as useful as tits on a bull. Don't intentionally use it.

[John Sukey]

Reminded me of a gun show many years ago when I collected trapdoors. Had a riflemans knife as part of my display. Guy came to the table and tried to buy it, saying it was a hospital corps knife! My mama didn't raise no stupid children!
Anyway, it was on display NOT for sale

[John Sukey]

Once had a photo of the Rough Riders in bivouac during the Span Am war. EVERY ONE of them was carrying a riflemans knife!

[Dick Hosmer]

I'd forgotten about this thread, John, what do you mean by "riflemans knife", the M1880 Hunting Knife (or M1892 Entrenching Knife, which differs only in the stamping)?

To return to the original question, I've collected quite a bunch of purported M1887 pictures (probably 15 different knives) from various sites, including the SA Museum, and believe that I now know what an original handle assembly is supposed to look like. Blade and etching is still up in the air, there are two blade shapes, one of which - if sharpened sufficiently - could pass for the other. The etching varies all over the map, both in panel location and forming/spacing of the individual letters - leading me to think that they may not be as uniform as I had originally believed. I plan to be doing a lot of photography over the winter, so more info to follow. For the present, I'll simply restate my original question - does anyone know what a genuine specimen is supposed to look like? Thanks.

[John Sukey]

It was the 1880 Riflemans knife. I also had the entrenching tool. whatever version that was, it DID NOT look like a riflemans knife and it was made to fit on the end of a trapdoor. the blade was shaped like a trowel and I suppose that's why they called it a trowel bayonet. There was a wood plug that fit in the socket with the end formed like a handle if you wanted to use it without the rifle.

[Dick Hosmer]

AFAIK, the only similar US martial item actually called a "Rifleman's Knife" was the 1849 Ames.

There were three varieties of the 1880, the last of which was called the 1892 Entrenching Knife and was marked slightly differently. I was not confusing any of those with either of the two (M1868/69 and M1873*) trowel bayonets, or with the M1873 Hagner entrenching tool, which was a single-purpose item NOT able to be mounted to the rifle.

*with walnut plug

[John Sukey]

I called it a riflemans knife because that is what it was called when I bought it from S&S firearms many years ago. So that is what I will still call it

[Dick Hosmer]

Potaytos/Potahtos - no big deal.

Sure would like to hear from someone really knowledgeable on the M887, though.

[ebeeby]

Dick - I would think Al Frasca would be pretty hip to them as he has sold several over the years....

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks, perhaps I should ask him directly, but the subject was brought up by me on the TC site recently and he didn't chime in.

But, I'm confused - I know he has offered several M1880s on the website, but don't recall ever seeing a HCK there (or were you referring to something he had at a show?)

The more I dig, the less expertise I find. The scabbards are, or were, quite common, but the knives themselves have always been an issue. The one I bought recently looks "good" or "right", but has no age. It is either new-made, very carefully cleaned, or enjoyed unbelievably good storage over the years. Had the chance to view pics from a very advanced collector in the last few days - our hilts are identical, but his blade shows some spotting, stains, discoloration, etc. Mine is pristine - perhaps too pristine. There are so many minor variations in the etched letters on the 15+ specimens I've reviewed that I am close to wondering if they were not done individually, and "freehand" at that.

[ebeeby]

My scabbard is one of those stone mint ones that are around - I am convinced they are original and someone found a crate of them somewhere. My HC knife though is a bit rough with half the hilt shot off.

Edit - Forgot to mention that only the outline of the box (most of it) is still showing on the etched side. The knife also has been on a grinding wheel. A real "been there" example