Cleaning/Refurbishing Bayonets

[Jerhal]

I have these two bayonets my Dad gave me. One is a 1915 U.S. bayonet and the other he believes is a Japanese WW2 bayonet. He was given both in 1945-6 by a Marine who fought in WW2. I'd like to find out how to get them cleaned up but I've also heard that doing so can hurt their value if they have any).

[Jerhal]

Here are more pictures of the Japanese bayonet:

IMG_0371.jpgIMG_0372.jpgIMG_0374.jpg

Any help identifying this bayonet and how to clean both would be appreciated.

[Major Tom]

The 1915 bayonet is valuable. I would not do any "cleaning" other than wiping off the crud, if any crud. Wipe down with gun oil periodically. The scabbard is equally valuable. Do not use "cleaners" on it.

[IditarodJoe]

Jerhal - I'm no expert, but . . . Your US bayonet is a Model 1905 manufactured at the Springfield Armory in 1915. In its original form, the blade was 16 inches long measured from the cross guard to the tip. The hilt was blued to just beyond the cross guard and the blade was polished bright, so yours appears to be correct and original in that regard. I agree with Major Tom, only a very gentle cleaning (I would think odorless mineral spirits would be safe), followed by a thin coat of good quality gun oil on the metal and a bit of boiled linseed oil rubbed into the wood.

The scabbard is for a US Model 1917 bayonet (based on the British Pattern 14 bayonet) and was originally produced for the US Model of 1917 rifle. The Model 1905 and 1917 bayonets were used concurrently during WW1.

[dave]

That jap 'knife' is not a bayonet at all, no barrel ring on cross guard, no way to attach pommel to bayo lug. All jap bayos look very much like a Brit 1903 bayo, which were patterned after the jap model. There is one short, very rare, jap bayo for a sub-machine gun but this does not look like one, even tho this one is not complete or has been modified some way.
I do not know why people say 'do not clean' and leave rust and other crap on military equipment. Sure did not look this way while in service. It is just the result of careless use 'after service', poor maintenance, and bad storage. Far from "original as used by the military"!

[Jerhal]

Thanks for the replies and advice. I'll only clean as recommended. Anything further I'd like to have done by a professional. Any recommendations for a restorer?

I have no intentions of selling the US bayonet but now I'm curious. When you say valuable, exactly how much is valuable? I'm wondering if it should be added to my valuable property insurance.

As far as the Japanese bayonet/knife goes, my Dad was told the threads on the end were where it screwed into the rifle. He was also told that while it was short for a bayonet, it was made that way for the jungle. If you guys think it is really a WW2 Japanese bayonet/knife, I'd probably send it to a restorer too.

[Major Tom]

The US bayonet with scabbard is probably valued at $400-500. Maybe more!

[IditarodJoe]

I've a few questions about your US bayonet, Jerhal.
1. What is the exact length of the blade from the crossguard to the tip?
2. Does the release button work freely? Have you tried putting it on a rifle?
3. Have you tried loosening the screw in the center of the grips? (NOT suggesting that you try this; just asking)
4. What is the status of the metal finish on the crossguard and handle? Heavily rusted? Light coating of rust? A dark patina?

I'm only asking to help to better answer your questions.

[dave]

Certainly not in that condition, and what you quote are asking prices. Altho not around here, 250-300 would be tops if in excellent shape and matched scabbard. (scabbard is not even correct for Bayo!) . And they stay on tables for a long time at that!
As for the knife, even it it is jap, no bayo in the world attached by "screwing into the rifle". and all bayos that I know of, except German) have barrel rings on the hilt. You would have to show or describe any marking before it could be ID'ed.

[Jerhal]

Thanks for the further responses.

I'm not too worried about knowing the exact value of the bayonet because I have no intention of selling it. Just wanted to know if it was worth naming on the insurance. Since it is below $2000, it's not required.

Answering IditarodJoe's questions:
1. I measure it at 15 15/16 inches.
2. The release button works freely and I can see the "latch" on the top end of the handle move up and down so that it is flush in the grove. It does stick occasionally, maybe 1 out of 10 times. I've not tried attaching it a rifle, I don't have one to try this with.
3. I have not tried loosen the screw. I don't really want to for fear of breaking something.
4. The metal has various stages of rust and patina. I'm attaching more pictures to show this.

IMG_2358.jpgIMG_2359.jpgIMG_2360.jpgIMG_2363.jpg

[Jerhal]

IMG_2365.jpgIMG_2364.jpgIMG_2362.jpgIMG_2361.jpg
Here are some more showing the rust.

I'd love to have this cleaned up/restored, but only if it does not detract from it historically.

[Jerhal]

Dave,

The only markings on the Japanese knife are unreadable. There is one marking on each side at the top of the blade right before the cross piece. Attached are the best pictures I can take.

IMG_2370.jpg IMG_2376.jpg

[IditarodJoe]

Jerhal - About ten years ago, an article written by the head curator for museum at the Springfield Armory National Historic Site on preserving antique arms was posted on the NPS website. I believe the article has long since been taken down, but back then I did manage to save a copy of the text as a six-page MS Word document. The CSP email function doesn't appear to allow for attachments, but if you'd like to send me an email message through this site I'll email a copy back to you. (If any of you more experienced posters know how I could post it here for everyone's benefit, please let me know.)

This article is certainly not the final word on conserving antique arms, but it might be a good starting point for you.

[dave]

In first pics the handle appeared heavily rusted, second ones do not look so bad. The stamps on the knife are not clear enough to ID but they do not look to be jap of 1900's period.

[Jerhal]

Dave,
Thanks. Guess it will remain a mystery...