New 1898 Carbine

[usnmars]

So I went to a local auction yesterday and bid blindly on a 1898 Krag carbine and got it for $350.00. I just wanted a shooter nothing fancy, so from a distance it didn't look bad and I bid. When I got the gun home i started inspecting it and found the bore is a mirror, so it should be a good shooter, and the gun surprisingly looks legit. My limited Krag knowledge tells me that 1898 carbines are rare, and in a specific serial block. Well this one is outside the serial block, but everything else looks right. The barrel is an exact 22", the sights are marked with a "C", the stock doesn't have a filler and looks like a real carbine stock. Like I said, although outside the known block everything to my novice brain says its right. Here are some pics, what do ya'll think? For what I paid, Id be happy if it was a fake. I just wanted a shooter.

[usnmars]

[5MadFarmers]

So I went to a local auction yesterday and bid blindly on a 1898 Krag carbine and got it for $350.00. I just wanted a shooter nothing fancy, so from a distance it didn't look bad and I bid. When I got the gun home i started inspecting it and found the bore is a mirror, so it should be a good shooter, and the gun surprisingly looks legit. My limited Krag knowledge tells me that 1898 carbines are rare, and in a specific serial block. Well this one is outside the serial block, but everything else looks right. The barrel is an exact 22", the sights are marked with a "C", the stock doesn't have a filler and looks like a real carbine stock. Like I said, although outside the known block everything to my novice brain says its right. Here are some pics, what do ya'll think?

Would you prefer the good news, the good news, or the bad news first?

Good news. For what you paid you did well. The stock, barrel, and barrel band exceed what you paid if they were parted.
Good news. It's a carbine now.
Bad news. It isn't what a "collector" would look for as it's "wrong" for a reasonable configuration.

Ignore the serial number for a bit. It's outside of the "right" range but that's not really the problem. It's that stock and sight combination. Impossible? No. Problematic enough where you'd have a problem selling it as a carbine.

Model 1898 carbines: M-1898C stocks, M-1896C sights.
Model 1899 carbines (first block): M-1899C stocks, M-1898C sights.
Model 1899 carbines (second block): M-1899C stocks, M-1896C sights.
Model 1899 carbines (third block): M-1899C stocks, M-1901C sights.

You have an "1898" receiver, out of range, in the M-1899C stock with the M-1898C sight. Those sights were pulled before the second blocks of M-1899C carbines were made - while the M-1898 carbines were still in use. After 1900 we'd expect to see the 1896, 1901, or 1902, but not the 1898, sight.

So the combination of "out of range" serial and "this stock and that sight on that gun are unlikely" is a problem.

So it's a "carbine" in that the parts, excepting the receiver, are generally M-1899, not M-1898, carbine fixings. Not something a collector is going to believe is likely and that, in the final analysis, is the problem.

Sorry for the bad news.

Good news, as mentioned, is you made out well on price and, as you noted, it should shoot just fine.

[usnmars]

thanks, I really appreciate your info. I scrounged and did some horse trading and got some 30-40 ammo today so she goes to the range tomorrow. I looked up the serial in my SRS books and it comes extremely close to a block of 32nd USV infantry in the Philippines.

[Dick Hosmer]

What Joe (5MF) said - plus, while the eyepiece is clearly M1898C, I question whether the base is. Could be the camera angle but it appears that the main curve rises, nearly equal to the front hump, and definitely above the leaf, whereas the proper base is below the leaf and lower than the front hump. If my eye is correct, that means the sight is a hybrid and further evidence that something is amiss. All that said - you scored an excellent deal. Have fun!!

[butlersrangers]

"usnmars" - I think you did very well getting your Krag at auction for $350. I hope it proves to be great fun at the Range. You have the right attitude regarding this Krag. It is likely a 'parts gun', but, some nice parts.

FWIW - It appears to me that your model 1898 rear-sight is a rifle sight that someone has stamped with a "C". In your photographs, the sight notches seem to be off-set to the right, (which was a compensation done on the rifle version, but, not the carbine). Also, the "C" stamp has 'disrupted' the metal around it on the rear blade. Correct carbine "C" markings are usually quite sharp and do not deform the surrounding metal.

The elevation ramp on your rear-sight base appears to show some tool marks or 'chatter' marks. (This is odd).

Your front sight blade and pin do not match the finish/patina of the base and barrel. The blade does not fit the base well and the "C" marking is vague and on the left side. (I believe it should be marked on the right).

I am not trying to 'pick apart' your nice acquisition. You did well and should enjoy your Krag. You asked honest questions about it.

(Some photos are attached to compare your sights with known legitimate carbine sights):

krag sight suspicious.jpgkrag sight suspicious2.jpgkrag-carb98.jpgkrag-carb98a.jpgkrag'99-blade.JPG

[psteinmayer]

FWIW, I also notice that the C stamp on the sight seems to be slightly to the right of center. Aren't all true 1898 carbine sights marked in a dead center location like the pictured above?

[madsenshooter]

The one I have is centered, and the typeface is seriffed. Not much of a serif on a C, but visible on both mine and BR's.

[butlersrangers]

IMHO - Those are bogus markings on the OP's front and rear sights.

This supports Dick Hosmer's observation that things are "amiss".

I imagine somebody, (definitely not Springfield), put together a 'replica-carbine' using a mixture carbine (stock and barrel) and rifle parts. The sights appear to be modified rifle sights.

Hopefully, there was no one cheated along the way.

The OP bought this Krag at a good price for a 'shooter'. For this purpose, it should serve wonderfully.

(From my observation, of model 1898 rear-sights, in the carbine version, the two outside sighting notches appear equidistant from their respective outside edges. On the rifle version, the three notches are visibly 'shifted' closer to the right edge to adjust for bullet drift).

This, in addition to the elevation ramp being too tall, is why I think the OP's sight is a 'falsely marked' rifle sight.

(Photos contrasting a correct carbine - 1898 type rear-sight - with OP's sight).

krg'98-carbine.jpgkrag sight suspicious.jpg

[jon_norstog]

That is a nice rifle, and one you won't have to worry about damaging if you take it to the range or out hunting. It is what it is, as they say. And it ain't what it ain't, too. What it ain't IMHO is a collector grade "piece" to be coddled and kept in a safe.

happy shooting sir! You did well.

jn

[Tkacook]

I would be proud to have it as a shooter! for $350, I would have picked that up in a minute.

Andy

[dave]

Sort of similar type as the infamous 'Red Rider's' except with a real carbine stock. I owned one once (R.R.) paid about 350 and sold for about the same.
In fact I have one like posters now, 'within range' but none ID'ed in that range, 219549, fake C marked sights (just like poster) and it has swivels on it, stock stamped 1900. Like new, all parts new or hardly worn, like butt plate. Pretty little thing.
Was some one putting these together like the R.R.'s? I have seen another being offered as a real carbine, at gun shows here, 98 rec. way out of range, also like new.