Leather ammo pouch

[DaveL]

I have a leather ammo pouch marked,

ROCK ISLAND
ARSENAL
1904
with T.C. off to the left.

It's the one that folds open like a book with a "latch" consisting of a brass stud and leather strap centered on top and a large US in a circle on the face. I'm told this was made to be used with the Krag, is that correct?

Another question I have is about the bulge on the outer right side. On the inside, that bulge makes a pocket and the pocket has a lightweight leather strap meant to hold something in there. What goes there?

TIA
DaveL

[sdkrag]

You describe the McKeever cartridge box used with the Krag. The McKeever was used primarily in garrison. The bulge was intended to store the screwdriver used with the Krag. Good luck getting one in there. The McKeever was originally used with the trapdoor Springfield. It was narrower and shorter than the Krag model which was also used with 03 Springfields. The McKeever design replaced the Hagner cartridge box which was used with the 50-70 caliber rifles as well as early 45-70 weapons. All of which evolved from the earlier cartridge boxes.

[butlersrangers]

'DaveL': You have a McKeever cartridge box. The design goes back to the late 1860s. Several models were made that accommodated .50-70, .45-70 and .30-40/.30-03/.30-06 cartridges.

With its late date, yours is probably for .30 caliber cartridges and 'garrison duty'. Many boxes that have 1903 and 1904 dates seem to be 'Brown' leather.

The Rock Island marked 'Black' box, in the attached picture, is undated and for .45-70. (The earlier boxes have a 'brass washer' riveted on the strap to engage the brass stud).

The bulged cavity area of the McKeever boxes is apparently to carry the narrow model 1866, model 1870, and model 1876 combination tools. The later model 1879 and (Krag) model 1897 tools will not fit securely in this 'pocket'.

bannerman items.JPG

[psteinmayer]

There is a company (can't remember the name off the top of my head) that makes reproduction McKeever cartridge boxes for 45/70 and 30-40. One day I'll get one to use in the Roosevelt Match!

[deadin]

http://pacificcanvasandleather.com

[DaveL]

Thanks for the great info guys.
The one I have is brown without the brass washer on the strap. There is also 2K 5 stamped on the back. Does anyone know what that means?
Is there any differences that would tell me if it was for use with the Krag or the Springfield?
By the way psteinmayer, here's a link to a site that has repros of all types;

http://pacificcanvasandleather.com/products.php?ItemCatName=Cartridge%20Boxes

Thanks again,
Dave

LOL, deadin beat me to posting the repro link by 5 minutes while I was typing.

[Dick Hosmer]

2 K 5 is most likely 2nd (fill in choice of state) regiment, Company K, rack #5. The .30 boxes are all russet (light brown) square and of uniform pattern, regardless of caliber. They are distinctly different from the rectangular black boxes for the .50-70 and .45-70 (which are "close" but not identical).

[dave]

I have one that was made for the 30-40 but later stitched at the bottom of the cart. pockets for the narrower 30-06 cart. May have been used, as original, for the 30-03?

[Dick Hosmer]

I have one that was made for the 30-40 but later stitched at the bottom of the cart. pockets for the narrower 30-06 cart. May have been used, as original, for the 30-03?

Huh? What part of a .30-'06, or .30-'03, is "narrower" than a .30-40? Or did you mean one that was modified from .45-70 to .30-40, or .30-40 to 6mm USN? I'm not sure that either of those actually exist, but accoutrements are not my main area of interest.

[DaveL]

Dick,
I'm the original poster, Dave-L.
I'm a little confused.
The one I have is russet color (although it's more medium to dark brown now) NOT black. But it's also rectangular not square. So mine being brown and rectangular makes it for which rifle? Sorry for the confusion.

[butlersrangers]

"DaveL." - From the description, your McKeever cartridge box was likely made for the .30-40 cartridge. If so, it will also hold .30-03 and .30-06 cartridges, without alteration.

The loops, inside a McKeever box, tightly hold the cartridges by the bullet and case neck. The case shoulder prevents .30 cal. cartridges from sliding more deeply into the loops. The dimensions and shape of the box leather will accommodate all three .30 caliber rounds mentioned.

I believe this is what Dick Hosmer was alluding to.

(p.s. - 5madfarmers has presented information that would indicate the late McKeever boxes were not likely issued for use with the Krag and .30-40 rounds).

[DaveL]

Ok! Got it.
Thanks for the clarification BR.

[Dick Hosmer]

I should have said "squarER"

[dave]

Huh? What part of a .30-'06, or .30-'03, is "narrower" than a .30-40? Or did you mean one that was modified from .45-70 to .30-40, or .30-40 to 6mm USN? I'm not sure that either of those actually exist, but accoutrements are not my main area of interest.

The part that is narrower is at the bullet, (long round Krag V. shorter pointed) maybe I should have said 'fatter'. I will try to take picture and post later. I am only going by what I was told, have never studied the subject. Used to have a Mckeever for Krag ammo but sold it before I acquired my Krag rifles.

[5MadFarmers]

I have a leather ammo pouch marked,

ROCK ISLAND
ARSENAL
1904
with T.C. off to the left.

It's the one that folds open like a book with a "latch" consisting of a brass stud and leather strap centered on top and a large US in a circle on the face. I'm told this was made to be used with the Krag, is that correct?

Yes but no. They really don't go with the gun. The "re-introduction" of the McKeever had to do with a change in the uniform. The "Mills Loop Belts" had been used as a garrison and field belt. With the shift away from the blue uniform a leather belt was adopted. The McKeever was re-introduced for garrison use. Field belt was the "eagle snap cartridge belt" for troops with '03s and loop belts for those still having Krags.

The McKeever was dropped in favor of the M-1910 Garrison Belt. In 1908, as an example, no regulars had Krags but they did have McKeevers.

McKeever patented the box in 1873.

The last blueprint for a McKeever is dated February 26th, 1909.