Mills 35 Loop Cartridge Belt - Real or Repro?

[sigman2]

I have this posted on a couple of other forums.
Just trying to confirm real or repro.


Guys, I purchased this off e-Bay. It was listed as an original Mills 35 loop 30/40 Krag cartridge belt. I have serious doubts as this this being an original.

First, the belt is in too good a condition to be 100 years old.
Second, the fabric has no old smell to it. It actually has a rather new smell.

The metal fittings are brass and the loops are woven into the belt, not sewn but I just can't believe this is an old, original belt.

How can I be 100% certain before I contact the seller?
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

https://imgur.com/a/T3sn6Ub

[kj47]

Not being an expert on this, it looks too new.

[butlersrangers]

Then who made it? This style of Mills belt has not likely been reproduced.

[retread12345]

NO EXPERT . Are the fittings brass or steel? There is a book by Steve Dorsey that examines these Mills belts in detail .

[butlersrangers]

Fittings are 'blackened brass' which is correct for 1905 and later era. Wear on finish appears honest - IMHO.

Dorsey book shows similar fittings on pre-WW1 and WW1 1903 Springfield belts. No 'Looped' example in Dorsey book like OP's.

(Could be for civilian market. I don't have a late era Mills catalog to check).

[70ish]

Then who made it? This style of Mills belt has not likely been reproduced.

Competition included Spalding, Hurlburt, Russell, Gilbert Looms and later the A.I. Spegel Co. The web styles were made internationally before, during, and after the Mills golden years. Hurlburt was an early leader in adding the 3 woven in lines to their belts although they usually sewed their loops on to the belt. The process for weaving together with the belt was not common during the early years, but came later. Anson Mills retired about 1907 as I recall and brother in law - Orndorf had died unexpectedly prior to that year. So many designs and processes probably came along (and went away) after both had left. Clues that confuse as much as help include the small taper to the bottom of the cartridge loops . It was a clever way to prevent fall-through. The feature is still visible on many of the old, original belts While Anson Mills was with the company, they usually marked not only the web gear, but the brass tips and ends with the Mills patent information. Mills didn't/couldn't make all of the belts and webbing for the Spanish American War as he didn't have the factory space or equipment. So the competing companies made a significant percentage of the total production. By the time Mills got their new factory and machines, they war ended and they nearly went bust. They expanded their business to Europe our of necessity and the designs starting showing up from sources there as well. Between the wars, there were new companies offering retail products with shot gun loops as well as rifle. There were military style buckles available too, some with unmilitary motifs. I feel like it's like asking who made design of shoes or other apparel. The manufacturing procedures changed and evolved for better or worse, but here they are nevertheless. All said, Mills branded items usually show special details that the competition couldn't or wouldn't duplicate. Web gear is here to stay and will continue to change as new ideas appear.

[jon_norstog]

It looks too good to be true. New fabric has a new fabric smell that is unmistakable. Whoever said patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels never saw Ebay. I would try to return the goods and get the money back.

jn

[butlersrangers]

'sigman2' - Have we gotten you suitably confused, yet?

[sigman2]

Oh yes, I was expecting opinions from all directions.

- - - Updated - - -

The fittings are blackened brass. There is no steel on this belt. All metal, buckles and belt ends are brass.

[butlersrangers]

FWIW - Here are some photos of the ends of a similar (original) Mills belt, to compare lettering, etc.
(Unfortunately, I don't have any references to document late Mills belts made for the commercial market).

As new as yours looks, I still don't think it is a copy.

IMHO - There's never been a market for high quality reproductions of the late style 'rifle-loop' belts. There's always been plenty of demand for Indian Wars and SAW belts, so repros abound.

BTW - That is a beautiful looking belt! Your call, but, I would keep it.
mills belt-end 1905.jpgMills belt-end late.jpg

[sigman2]

Thanks for all the opinions.

I have decided to keep it.
If it is a repro... well I've been screwed by less pretty things.
It is a pretty belt!

[kj47]

If Butlersrangers thinks its real then it problay is, as I stated I am no expert. I will pick up a repro to go with my carbine.

[JimmyK]

It's an original circa 1905 commercial belt for sporting use. Notice the gentle age fading of the black tracer threads in the belt. I expect that the metal fittings are subdued bronze. These have never been reproduced. There's no real demand for reproductions of this style belt. I used to see similar high condition belts at shows in the good old days offered as military, but that's just a story for the uninitiated.

It's a beautiful belt. Enjoy it sparingly! The cotton is not as strong and serviceable as it was 100 years ago.

Yours,
Eureka Arsenal