New to me Model 1896

[Darrylg60]

My brother-in-law was getting rid of his gun he learned how to shoot with and asked if I wanted an "old .22" I said sure, sight unseen. I picked it up Sunday and was surprised that this was his .22 SN 38266, looking for any info and where to find parts to try and make it correct if its a carbine.
IMG_7490.jpgIMG_7491.jpgIMG_7492.jpgIMG_7489.jpgIMG_7485.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

While it appears to be of carbine length, with the original short 30" stock, the rear sight is from an 1896 rifle, and the serial number is from the very beginning of a rifle range, though that exact number is not listed. I'd need to see some better-lit pictures, especially of the front sight and muzzle. The use of a rifle sight on a carbine - though certainly NOT original - is not that unusual today, since carbine sights have been extremely rare for the last 50 years, at least. The sling bar and ring can be obtained with no problem.

[jon_norstog]

Darryl, you have got yourself a real prize! Ask your brother in law where he got it and when, it's worth keeping as much of the story as you can.

jn

[Darrylg60]

Thank you for the information Dick. I measured the barrel with a cleaning rod and it shows 22". I've read about some of the rifles being sporterized. Here are some more pics, let me know if you would like different ones. I appreciate it.
IMG_7521.jpgIMG_7522.jpgIMG_7523.jpgIMG_7525.jpgIMG_7526.jpg

[bruce]

What a beautiful rifle. Very much appreciate your post and the pictures. Hope you will be able to find the rear sight, etc. Sincerely. bruce.

[Dick Hosmer]

It's a bit hard to tell for sure, but that could be an original carbine barrel/sight/crown. If it's not original (and the fact that it is associated with an original carbine stock is a plus) it's very well done.

[Darrylg60]

Thanks again Dick, for taking the time to look. Now, off in search of the elusive '96 carbine rear sight. $$$$$

[Dick Hosmer]

You're very welcome. Expect to pay upwards of $600, and be VERY careful as the sight has been both faked and POORLY reproduced. Look for nothing less than workmanship fully equal to the sight that is now on the gun. Run away if ANYTHING seems fishy. SA did NOT re-stamp graduations, for example.

[butlersrangers]

I hate being a 'Debbie Downer', but, looking at Darrylg60's front-sight photos raises my suspicions.

I believe this is a barrel that has been cut-down with a Krag sight-base 're-attached'.

It appears a dovetail was filed into his barrel's muzzle area and a 'reclaimed' front sight-base was fitted or jammed into the dovetail.

The front sight-base appears a bit canted and it also looks like some edges have been cleaned up and slightly beveled.

IMHO - This is not the very neat brazing and contouring of the Krag front sight-base that was done at Springfield Armory.

Daryl sight-a.jpgDaryl sight-c.jpg[ATTACH=CONFIG]49193

[Kragrifle]

Krag front sights were installed with a very shallow dove tail. You should be able to make this out on inspection. There have been a few clever ways to put a front sight on a shortened barrel.

[butlersrangers]

As 'Kragrifle' states, the front sight-base of U.S. Krag carbine and rifle barrels exhibits a very shallow 'dovetail'.

There were something like 30 manufacturing steps at Springfield Armory in the manufacture of a Krag barrel.

At around step #18, a dovetail was milled across the unshaped and unrifled barrel blank and a small block of steel was bronze brazed into the dovetail.
This 'block' became a fixed-point, that the barrel shaping & taper, rear-sight holes, 'clocked' or timed barrel threads, barrel index-mark, and extractor-cut, were all based on.

Ultimately, this 'block' was shaped, slotted, and cross-drilled, to become the front sight-base.

The Krag barrel was actually a fully manufactured, proofed, and "browned" (Blued) item, when it finally 'met' and was screwed into its fully finished 'case hardened' receiver. (Wow, interchangeable parts)!

The machine work and "browning" (rust blue) make the attachment of the Krag sight-base very subtle. Close scrutiny will usually reveal the color and outline of the bronze seam.

(IMHO - The OP's model 1896 front-sight attachment looks oddly done. It does not appear to have the Springfield Armory manufacture characteristics, shown in the two attached photos).

krag 1899 carbine sight.jpgkrag front-sight barrel attachment.jpg

[Darrylg60]

Thanks for the insight butlersrangers. I hope I can get more info from brother-in-law concerning family history. He received it in the late '50's but can't remember if it was in the family longer.

[Kragrifle]

While on the subject, the early Model 1892 rifles had a wider slot cut in the front sight post than the 1896 and later rifles and carbines. The Model 1892 sight blade had a step cut to make the sighting portion of the blade narrower than that portion in the front sight post. When these early rifles were “upgraded’ the front sight post slot was made narrower or was replaced with the later sight post with more narrow blade cut out.
Question is whether the posts were replaced or was the slot somehow made narrower? Asked this question to Tom Pearce years ago and he stated it was not known exactly how it was done.

[butlersrangers]

That is an interesting question, 'Kragrifle'.

According to William Brophy, "The Krag Rifle", (page 114), the difference in the front sight blade thickness was only five thousandths of an inch - (.055" for model 1892 vs. .050" for model 1896 and later Krag models).

This is only a difference in thickness about equal to the thickness of a sheet of printer paper.

It would not surprise me if maybe Springfield Armory simply squeezed the model 1892 front sight-bases in a vise to tighten the early wide slots.

[Darrylg60]

Some better pics of my front sight.
IMG_7577.jpgIMG_7584.jpgIMG_7585.jpgIMG_7586.jpg