Getting the parked Krag sighted in

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  • madsenshooter
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 1476

    #1

    Getting the parked Krag sighted in

    Today I shot the parkerized Krag in a CMP Clinic at a nearby rifle club hoping to get a good zero for Camp Perry. I didn't do bad, nothing like a super shooter the likes of Bob S would do, but 420 out a possible 500 is good for a 118yr old rifle. I'm pretty sure the problem isn't the rifle at all, it's all the nut pulling the trigger. Anyway, I think I got the zero I wanted, shot a 95-2x in slow-fire prone, the rifle was putting em where I was pointing it when the striker fell.

    They had a sitting rapid stage, something the Vintage Rifle Match doesn't have. Glad they don't. Not wishing to change my stock weld and subsequently my new found zero, I tried shooting the stage from kneeling. We won't talk about how my legs don't bend well for sitting anyway. But the kneeling rapid fire was my worse stage, with a 72.

    Wonder of wonders. I made it through the whole match without a miss! Even shot a 88-1x from standing, a big improvement over last year's Camp Perry performance. I knew that tight fitting jacket would help. The rifle was shooting good enough that I could pretty much tell where the shot was going. I finished with an X and I was able to tell my scorer that's what it was before the target came up.

    The guys at the range enjoyed seeing the old rifle there, one said it would be his safe queen if it were his. Another old fellow, who I've seen photographing at Camp Perry, was taking a lot of pictures. Other than me, there was a lone Garand on the line, the others were shooting AR-15s.

    In all honesty, there's almost always zero wind at this range, the backstop is a huge hill that protects the range from a lot of wind, and there's trees on 4 sides. Check it out at the link below, zoom in a bit. It's nothing like shooting in the wind off Lake Erie. This is something that'd take more practice to master than I can afford to do. They're having an 80rd match tmrw. I have Garand ammo loaded, hmm. Time to do a little accounting.



    That nice fitting jacket made the relative cool temps of today pretty hot. Paul, you're going to thank me for talking you into a morning slot!
    Last edited by madsenshooter; 06-08-2013, 05:59.
    "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson
  • Griff Murphey
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 3708

    #2
    Sounds like a great shoot, Madsen!

    Comment

    • Pentz
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2011
      • 103

      #3
      Making me feel puny...got to get out to the range....

      Comment

      • psteinmayer
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2011
        • 1527

        #4
        Originally posted by madsenshooter
        That nice fitting jacket made the relative cool temps of today pretty hot. Paul, you're going to thank me for talking you into a morning slot!
        Hell Bob, I'm still thanking you for introducing me to the whole match shooting in the first place. I LOVE it!!! I will say, however that I don't have a shooting coat, and most likely won't as funds are very tight right now, and they don't have one made by "Omar-the-Tent-Maker" anyway (I need a 4X). I did pick up a shooting mat this year though... and I am going to be much better prepared this year also! I'm hoping to Medal this year...
        "I was home... What happened? What the Hell Happened?" - MM1 Jacob Holman, USS San Pablo

        Comment

        • madsenshooter
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 1476

          #5
          Nothing wrong with just a sweater Paul, anything on the ol elbows to keep them from getting burned by the black rubber on the mat. I heard some comments about the age of my shooting coat from somewhere down the line the other day. "Haven't seen one like that in years!". That might be because it had "Pops" written inside of it. It's very thin, the good fitting jacket is a motorcycle leather jacket that has pads in the shoulder. Like this one: http://www.zalando.co.uk/esprit-coll...2g016-802.html It goes under the light shooting jacket. Wow, $380 new, I had no idea! Found it in a closet when I moved into a house. My accounting didn't allow me to go the Garand match today, but they have three matches in July. Don't be too disappointed if I use my K31 instead of my Krag. All depends on how some cast bullet shooting goes. I have some special nose pour molds made by a Pennsylvania gunsmith who catered to the benchrest bullet crowd, the late Don Eagan. The bullets I gave you are patterned after one of his molds, but base pour.
          "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

          Comment

          • Bob S
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 315

            #6
            Originally posted by madsenshooter
            nothing like a super shooter the likes of Bob S would do, but 420 out a possible 500 is good for a 118yr old rifle.
            I appreciate the compliment, Bob, but I'm just the proverbial one-eyed fat man now. Can't get into a proper sitting position because of deteriorating hip. But I'm workning on an "alternative".

            Resp'y,
            Bob S.
            Last edited by Bob S; 06-15-2013, 10:31.
            Resp'y,
            Bob S.

            USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

            Comment

            • madsenshooter
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 1476

              #7
              So, you got the Distinguished when you was younger, most do. I was almost a small arms instructor in the AF, was on paper. Had cross training approved if I extended for 2yrs. Wife didn't like the military life, I got out. Should've stayed and lost the wife, which I eventually did anyway. Ah, hindsight..

              Hey Bob, you remember that Eagan bullet I was shooting in the Krag, the MX3-30-AR? Remember I said makes a better K31 bullet? This is how it does at 2000fps out of my K31. Got me a tight bore, .294x.3055, actually tapers .005 from throat to muzzle, .3060 at the throat.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by madsenshooter; 06-15-2013, 10:55.
              "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

              Comment

              • Bob S
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 315

                #8
                Bob,

                My Distinguished badge is an antique. So is my retired ID. :-)

                I am pretty sure I have that mould around here someplace. Would appreciate your load data (for Krag and K31) if you would. By email if you don't want to publish .....

                Bob S.
                Last edited by Bob S; 06-16-2013, 09:17.
                Resp'y,
                Bob S.

                USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

                Comment

                • madsenshooter
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 1476

                  #9
                  In my Krag with a .301/.310 pipe, it was 20gr of Blue Dot, the bullet seated out into the rifling, which left that big lube groove above the case mouth. In the K31 I'm using 25.7gr of a Swiss made powder, SPP210, that Wideners was selling at one time. They said 4198 speed, but others have indicated it's a little faster. I was getting 2000fps out of both rifles. With the tighter bore of the K31, I couldn't get up to 2000fps using Blue Dot without pressure exceeding the strength of the alloy, which was about like lino, but with a little copper. I've had the bullet faster in the K31 using slower powders, but 2000fps seems to be it's best accuracy level. My mold was the last one made with the old worn cherry, so it's probably minimum dimensions. Cherry broke next time I had a mold maker try to cut a mold for me.
                  "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

                  Comment

                  • madsenshooter
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 1476

                    #10
                    Grumble, grumble, what a mess! I went out the other day to see which of 4 loads shot the best. Well, somehow during my recent move it seems some loads with different powders, which were otherwise the same, got mixed together. Only a 2gr difference in the powder charge, cases can vary by more than that, so I couldn't weigh them to discover which was which. Pull em down, start over. They were mixed when I was trying them for accuracy, and probably at the match I shot a couple weeks ago. "Oh, bother!", said Pooh. If I had enough components, I'd have just used the mixed ones for fun rounds and started a different batch rather than pull them down, but....
                    Last edited by madsenshooter; 06-22-2013, 06:48.
                    "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

                    Comment

                    • madsenshooter
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 1476

                      #11
                      Narrowing it down

                      Made it to the nearest 100yd range today. I've been playing with a variety of powders under the Nosler 168 trying to get something that would shoot less than the 3 moa I was averaging. I've narrowed it down to a couple, finally. Best of the day was a Swiss made powder, same stuff I've been using in the cast load above, SPP210. It's supposed to burn at 4198 speed. Loads in my 6x45 indicated it does, but there are fellows on castboolits.com having problems with it, one says he gets 200fps less with the SPP210 than he does with an equal charge of 4198, another says he has to reduce his charges of SPP210 to get the same velocity as 4198, and others say they're getting hangfires. Anyway, I decided it try 28gr of it today under the Nosler and shot a 5 shot 100yd group with the 1902 sight that was 1.9" wide x .75" tall. Three X's and two tens on the SR-1, two of the three shots in the X ring touching. I don't know how fast it's going, targets don't care anyway, but 2.3gr less gives me 2000fps out of my K31 with a 164gr cast bullet, so I'll guesstimate 2100-2200fps out of the smaller case of the Krag. I also got some good results with IMR4007SSC, 41.8gr of it under the Nosler gave me a nice 1.6"wide x 1.4" tall 5 shot group that dropped about an inch less than the SPP210 load, so I'm guessing it might be going 2300fps. I'll continue to work with these two powders. Eliminated from the competition were Russian 4895, AA2015 and some surplus flake powder for 50BMG plastic training ammo that burns about Blue Dot speed.

                      I think I can get a little more accuracy out of them by neck sizing only, all this testing has given me plenty of fireformed cases. After I had a couple jams in the match a few weeks ago I did some work on the magazine and it feeds spitzers better now, so I think I can also seat the bullets out further and get a little less jump to the rifling. Weighing and sorting cases might improve things too.

                      Griff, I had several model 92 or 96 carrier and follower assemblies. Comparing them, I could see that the rear of the carrier, the little tab in the center of the follower, had been modified, ground down. This allows the carrier to contact the rounds higher on the case, raising the nose of the round that's ready to feed up. I picked out the one that had been ground the most and it raises the sharp nose of the Nosler above where it was getting stuck in the crack between sideplate and receiver. Feeds like a dream now. Could be these were being modified by unit armorers and led to the changes made to the 98 follower. I had several heights of tab to chose from, the one that was in it hadn't been ground on at all. Too much up might be the cause of the dreaded "bullet catches on the chamber edge" syndrome.
                      Attached Files
                      "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment

                      • jon_norstog
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 3896

                        #12
                        Madsen,

                        looks like you have vertical stringing licked! That's the big issue with most milsurps IMHO. Good going. You might want to borrow a chronograph if you can. They are pretty affordable now and a lot of shooters have them. What they are good for is checking your loads for consistency.

                        jn

                        Comment

                        • madsenshooter
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 1476

                          #13
                          Maybe someday I'll get one Jon. I got higher priority items on my want list right now. #1 right now is a centering vise so I can make use of couple bullet mould cutting cherries that I have. A little hand turned vise is about the same price as a chronograph.
                          "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

                          Comment

                          • madsenshooter
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 1476

                            #14
                            I think case weighing and sorting will definitely be a help. I just took the five cases from the 4007 load in the center above, and took a good look at the primers while wearing two pair of glasses. Three of them showed more radius at the edge than the other two. Deprimed and cleaned the primer pockets on the one with the most radius, and the one with the least and found a 25gr difference between the two cases! They had been trimmed and primer pockets uniformed before firing, so there was no difference in their length or primer pocket depth. They were old REM-UMC 30USA cases. I thought the ammo makers were more consistent back then!
                            "I have sworn upon the Altar of God, eternity hostility upon all forms of tyranny over the minds of man." - Thomas Jefferson

                            Comment

                            • Mark Daiute
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 654

                              #15
                              I'm taking notes on all this!
                              "A man with a tractor and a chain saw has no excuses, nor does he need any"
                              Me. "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" Emerson "Consistency is the darling of those that stack wood or cast bullets" Me.

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