Legit 1898 carbine?

[Rick the Librarian]

A guy on CMP who sells quite a few rifles through RC Arms asked about an 1898 carbine he was going to sell.

The serial number is 128,414, which is pretty much all by it's lonesome in a sea of 1898 rifles in SRS records. I saw one 1898 in the 127,000 range and another in the 131,000 range.

I have no "interest" in this but wondered what the collective wisdom thought about it.

Here's the link to a number of photos:

http://rcarms.com/128.html

[Dick Hosmer]

It's possible, I guess, but I'm not really thrilled by the front sight, I THINK it is a bit too far to the rear - although that could just be camera distortion (guy's closeup shots are AWFUL). The non-standard swivels - at least the front one - are a turn-off, too. There are four 127xxx and 13 high 130xxx/low 131xxx carbines known, but I'm not aware of ANY 128xxx or 129xxx. That would be one I wouldn't want to put a lot of money into. Just my $.02 - YMMV.

[psteinmayer]

Why no close-up of the rear sight? There are close-ups of everything else... Perhaps it's not a carbine sight? I agree with you also Dick... not only does the front sight look just a little too far back, the blade also looks odd to me. The sling swivels are identical to the swivels I have on my sporter (non Krag) stock.

I'm just not buying it!

[kollector03]

Thanks Rick for cross-posting this.

I am the one that has this carbine in my possession from the estate of a friend and long time collector that I am selling off for his widow.

Krag rifles and carbines are not my area of expertise and I am hoping to nail down just what this one is before I place it for sale. I know Krag carbines are very often faked and have sold one obviously shortened one already, but this one has me kind of perplexed whether it's a legit 1898 carbine or something else.

I'm not a fan of the non-standard swivels or the carved letters on the underside of the stock, but it's sitting in as-pulled from the gun room rack on Sunday.

I'll be taking some additional photos of it tonight and will see about cleaning up the rushed photos I uploaded into the album last night.

Definitely interested in any opinions on what exactly this one is so I can list it accurately.

Thank

Don

[Dick Hosmer]

Will definitely look forward to more pictures.

Unfortunately, it's well inside that gray area of "possibility" - dismissing one from the 200xxx, 300xxx and 400xxx ranges is easy.

5000 M1898 carbines were made, with the M1896C rear sight and 30" stock. They range, roughly, from 112xxx to 135xxx, with serious peaks in the 118xxx/119xxx areas. There is a minor, but too many to all be wrong, spike at 1309xx/1310xx. The problem is that we only have contemporary recordings on a couple of hundred out of the 5000. The rest is "informed speculation".

Nearly all (such as yours) were soon restocked with the 32" wood, and rear sights were upgraded on most. Thus, they became, in essence, Model 1899 carbines, but with an interesting marking quirk. Those "in range", such as yours, COULD be correct, but it is one of the easiest guns going to fake, and so, collectors are have become VERY wary. In a way, the situation is rather "unfair" to the legitimate specimens, but I do not see things changing any time soon.

[jon_norstog]

Rick, Don

Those sling swivels are definite add-ons - there were carbines in service with sling swivels but they used the items from the rifle with the rear swivel inletted. And no humpy handguard. It could be legit otherwise. Why would someone fake a '98 carbine and then booger it up? I would buy that in a heartbeat if it was priced as a hunting rifle, not a collector's rarity.

jn

[kollector03]

Thank you for your replies and opinions. I'll update the album with additional photos tonight. Is there anything else that I need to make sure I photograph or measure on this one to help pin down the ID.

I want to ensure that when it does get placed for sale that it's accurately described and fairly priced.

Don

[thorin6]

I suggest a good shot of the muzzle and a good measurement of the barrel to make sure it's exactly 22 inches long. Is there a C on the front sight blade? If so, a good picture of that would help.

[kollector03]

No C stamped on front of rear sight:

[Dick Hosmer]

I'm still not 100% on front sight - it could be OK, but am just not sure. It is a Krag base, but it looks like it is soft-soldered. Blade is not right.

Rear sight is rifle - the carbine ladder goes to 20, is marked "C", and the slide top edge should have a depressed area at center.

[JBinIll]

That front sight definitely looks soft soldered.

[psteinmayer]

+1 on the front and rear sights. Stick a cleaning rod down the barrel against the closed bolt... mark and measure. It should be exactly 22 inches.

[jon_norstog]

I think the preponderance of evidence points to this being a "carbine" rather than a carbine. "Carbine" as in a fake. But it's a good fake. If the barrel were good I'd think $500 was a bargain. The parts on it may be worth more than that.

jn

[kollector03]

I think the preponderance of evidence points to this being a "carbine" rather than a carbine. "Carbine" as in a fake. But it's a good fake. If the barrel were good I'd think $500 was a bargain. The parts on it may be worth more than that.

jn

Barrel is good. It will be a good shooter. I agree that for a faked "carbine", its a very attractive one and it's been together like this for some time. Old school craftsmanship and even patina on the metal.

Best,

Don

[JBinIll]

I believe Farmer coined the phrases "carfle" or "rifbine" to cover guns similar to this one.LOL