"Western" brand Krag peep sight.

[Mickey Christian]

Never seen one before. It has a little hook that goes where the cutoff should be and is held on by the screw that holds on the side plate. Was told that Western was later bought out by Redfield. Can anyone elaborate and perhaps offer an opinion as to value?
It seems to be complete and in about 95% original nitre (?) blue with an aperture.
Thanks,
Mickey

[psteinmayer]

Redfield "No Drill" sights are quite common on Krag spotters.. especially the 102K model. Butlersrangers knows about everything there is to know about them.

[butlersrangers]

Mickey Christian:

John H. Redfield started his gun sight business in 1909, under the "Western Gunsight Company" name. In the 1920s, to avoid legal problems with Winchester-Western, he changed the name to the "Redfield Gunsight Company".

Your sight is probably the Model 102-K. These seem to sell for around $75 to $100 and are liked for their 'no-drill' utility features. Someone might put a premium on one with the earlier "Western" marking (I wouldn't).

redfield-krag.JPG
krg-rf-westrn2.jpgkrg-rf-westrn1.jpg

[Mickey Christian]

Yes, that is what I have. Not too sure if I want to install it on my sporter Krag though.
Opinions about the sight?
Mickey

[Bob S]

Good quality rugged sight. No micrometer adjustments, of course, but if you do some homework and use some finesse, you can learn to make reasonably precise and repeatable adjustments with it. The "hook" stabilizes the sight by gripping the cutoff mortice. The cutoff is usually removed, but if you have a Model 1898 or 1899 receiver, you may have to put a dummy rod with a filed flat in the cutoff mortice for it to feed smoothly. These receivers have the short cutoff and a short mortice to match. The cortridge rim can snag on the front edge of the empty mortice and cause a failure to feed. The Model 1892 and 1896 actions seem to be immune to this, as they have the longer cuttoff mortice and the cartridge is already angled toward the chamber before the rim can catch the front edge.

Respectfully,
Bob S.

[Mickey Christian]

Bob,
Thanks for the heads up on the cut off.
Would you happen to have a pic you could get ahold of and post?
Thanks,
Mickey

[butlersrangers]

'Mickey':

Attached, please see pictures of an 1898 Krag magazine cut-off and later William's Gunsight instructions, regarding the Redfield 102-K and 70-K sights. (In earlier times the cut-off was simply discarded, but, this introduced roughness in cartridge feeding as described by 'Bob S'). An appropriately shaped 'shaft' can be made out of a nail or brass rod, so an original cut-off lever does not have to be ruined.

There is also a picture of a model 1899 Krag action with the side-plate off and the cut-off lever in the "up" (feed position). If you look at the top/rear of the side opening, you can see the tip of the cut-off in its slot.


krag-cutoff '98.jpgRedfield-williams.JPGkrag cut off.jpg

[butlersrangers]

Pacific also made 'no-drill' receiver 'peep' sights that mounted with a 'shaft' shaped like the magazine cut-off. These sights, Pacific K-1 and K-2, did not manifest feed roughness because they filled the Receiver cut-off slot.

I imagine Bondo, JB Weld, Liquid Solder, or other fillers that harden, cold be used to temporarily fill the cut-off slot, when using a Redfield/Western 102-K sight.
Krag no-drill sights.jpg

[Mickey Christian]

Thank you all for your input.
How does the cut off come out?
Do I need a longer side plate screw to mount the sight?
Mine came without a mounting screw.
Thanks again,
Mickey

[butlersrangers]

'Mickey':

Attached is a diagram showing how to remove the Krag magazine cut-off.

The Western/Redfield #102-K sight requires a longer screw to mount it on the Krag, using the side-plate screw hole. The side-plate screw thread is .187"X 26TPI. The Redfield replacement screw is approximately .560" OAL. One can be improvised using a 1903 Springfield barrel-band sling-swivel screw cut to approximately .515 to .560 OAL.

NRA-Hoff.JPGkrag-sideplate.JPG

[Mickey Christian]

Thanks for the screw info.
Mickey

[Bob S]

Mickey,

As "Butler", said a lot of old-timers used to make a dummy to fit in the cutoff mortice. Yeah, I am an old timer, now, but I always used a piece of steel drill rod instead of brass. On one of my rifles, I used a spare real cutoff and just filed a flat as a clearance for the hook on the sight base. I did that just in case I ever decide to shoot under "CMP Rules", I could just remove the sight and not have to futz with re-installing the cutoff (after FINDING it, of course!) I'm sure they would insist that a cut-off be present. They might even put up a fuss about the small "modification" of it. If so, I think I'd just tell them where to go. I have achieved Curmudgeon status.

Respectfully,
Bob S.

[Mickey Christian]

Good idea. SDounds like what I should do.
Mickey....fast approaching curmudgeon status also.