Help needed with Krag carbine

[ghostdevilguy]

I just bought a 1898 krag carbine, it has the "C" markings on the rear sight, and it's serial number 1215xx. The stock has the 1900 stamp on it, it had sling swivels and a 1907 on it that I took off. The barrel also appers to have the proper front sight, and is 22" long. I don't know a lot about these so I would like an expert to weigh in. Also, let me know if anymore pictures are needed

[Dick Hosmer]

Very nice find - the number - without checking (and of course I can't, anyhow) is at least believable for one of the 5000 examples.

It has been re-sighted and re-stocked. The original configuration for the M1898 carbine was with the short 30" stock, with horned band and M96C rear sight.

Your rear sight, the M1898C, is a scarce one. Someone appears to have bent the bolt handle slightly - that should be fixed.

[ghostdevilguy]

A couple of more pictures, including some of where the holes from the swivels were, do you have any idea what this rifle is worth?

[Dick Hosmer]

That's a bad question to ask after you bought it!

The answer is not easy. While not common,that model often doesn't bring a lot of money because it is extremely easy to fake, but nearly impossible to prove that it is real.

The rear sight alone is worth about $400 to someone who needed it - and the whole gun should probably bring something in excess of $1,000.

If you want to give the whole number, it can be checked against the few verified specimens, but even that means little because the 5000 guns were spread over a range of around 23,000 numbers - so - nearly 4 out of 5 in that span were NOT carbines.

[ghostdevilguy]

The good news is that I got it for less than $400, so I thought that even if it was a sporter it was a good deal, the whole number I will pm you. If this one is real, I want to put it the hands of a krag collector. I was thinking about asking $1000 + an l1a1 or other fal parts kit, does that seem fair?

[ghostdevilguy]

It seems you message box is full so I can't pm you

[Rick the Librarian]

I've got Dick's email - I'll do so.

RtL

[ghostdevilguy]

Thanks

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks

Rick gave me the number, but I cannot access my 1898C list just now. At under $400 you are OK - the sight is worth that. I'll get back to you as soon as I can, but the odds are not good and ONLY direct hits count. "Close" is always iffy, but with the 98C it is absolutely meaningless.

[Rick the Librarian]

I checked on my list (in the back of Frank Mallory's 2nd ed. Krag book) and did not get a hit.

[Kragrifle]

This carbine is a combination of an 1898 receiver, a model 1899 carbine stock originally on an 1900 produced gun, the 1898 carbine sight originally on a model 1899 carbine made in 1899,and likely all original parts on good guns, just not the same gun. Likely this is the product of someone trying to assemble a correct carbine, unfortunately with the wrong data. While this carbine was certainly not assembled at Springfield, this was a great buy for someone needing parts to finish off several projects. Bargain!

[ghostdevilguy]

I found two stamps on the stock under the action

[madsenshooter]

Stock fitters marks, wow, the receiver ring on that one has sure got hot a time or two! Could be a real 98 carbine, could be a construction. What the others are looking for is mention in govt records of your particular serial # being issued as a carbine. That's about the only surefire proof. I know 5MF have some serial #s that Mallory missed, so don't sell that sight right away!

[ghostdevilguy]

I have no intention to part this rifle out, it wouldn't feel right

[5MadFarmers]

This carbine is a combination of an 1898 receiver, a model 1899 carbine stock originally on an 1900 produced gun, the 1898 carbine sight originally on a model 1899 carbine made in 1899,and likely all original parts on good guns, just not the same gun. Likely this is the product of someone trying to assemble a correct carbine, unfortunately with the wrong data. While this carbine was certainly not assembled at Springfield, this was a great buy for someone needing parts to finish off several projects. Bargain!

We're on something of the same page but slightly different. I suspect it wasn't "wrong data" but most of the rest stands.

For OP - nobody "knows" as nobody was there. So it's opinion. So the question is: "what is behind the opinion?" First, what's behind it and then to the gun.

The 1898 carbines were made in the summer (July-Sep) of 1898. They had M-1896 carbine sights.
The 1899 carbines (first block) were made in the summer of 1899. These had the 1898c sight (you have one).
The 1899 carbines (second block) were made in the summer of 1900. Back to 1896c sights (and this is significant).
The 1899 carbines (third block) were made in the summer of 1901. M-1901c sights.

See the problem? In 1900 they made a carbine with the 1896c sight as the 1898c sight had been withdrawn. You have a gun sporting the 1900 cartouche. The 1898c sight had already been withdrawn. Not only that but your stock served on a gun and then, after it was turned back in, it was removed from the original gun it was installed on. So unlikely that is a week or even a month right? Maybe a year? Maybe longer? The rear sight on your gun had been withdrawn before that stock was even stamped and that stock then served some time before turn in.

So I agree with Kragrifle that it's a mix. The 1898c sight is rare. Stocks and barrel bands do not grow on trees and neither do those barrels. So I'd go with "have apples, make applesauce" instead of incorrect data. When the guns and parts were sold to the surplus dealers they made guns from the bits and pieces. So a stock from barrel A, the receiver/barrel from barrel B, and the sight from barrel C.

I don't doubt it started as an M-1898c, we have no proof but I'd say it's likely, but it isn't the result of an armory rebuild. The sight/stock date are a mismatch in a fashion that I'd not expect.

Nice parts. Restore the stock. Swap that gimpy bolt out.

I was at an auction a month or two ago. 1898c stock, field replacement, took $450 off the top of my head. The stocks are rare. Very.