from the other list, odd SRS hit

[jon_norstog]

On the Milsurp list's Krag board a guy posted pictures and questions about his carbine. The SRS hit is this: "120141 98C 03/18/99 CO I 4TH USV INF (RECVD)" which kind of threw me. I never heard of that outfit before, turns out it was only in existence for two years. Does that hit indicate the weapon is a carbine? It has a 2000 yd 1900 rear sight and a newer stock.

My question is whether the 98C in the SRS hit means the weapon is a carbine and if so, how a carbine could have been issued to an infantry regiment. As a side question, I wonder if the Civil War practice of putting Indian soldiers/troopers into a regiment's "I" company continued during the Spanish American War?

jn

[Dick Hosmer]

Jon,

That is the correct SN range for an 1898 Carbine, and yes, the "C" does stand for carbine. There is no "1900" sight. If in the long 1899 stock, ANY model (1896, 1898, 1901, or 1902) of carbine rear sight is possible, but 1901C sights go to 2300.

Have no idea about the Indians - never heard that story.

[butlersrangers]

The model 1898 carbine in question, #120141, appears to have been updated with the long forearm 1899 carbine stock. The rear-sight is clearly wrong. It is a 1902 Rifle sight. The hand-guard is for a 1901 sight and its opening has been altered to accommodate the 1902 rear-sight.

The appendix, in Mallory's 2nd edition of "The Krag Rifle Story", lists a bunch of Model 1898 carbines in this range being issued to the 4th, 5th, and 9th USV Infantry, 03/18/1899.

(I have to do further research, but, I suspect they were intended to be rapid moving Infantry hunting down Insurgent Leaders in Northern Luzon, P.I.).

[Rick the Librarian]

The "U.S. Volunteers" was a concept used mainly during the Spanish-American War and Philippine Insurrection. Troops were raised specifically to go to the Philippines and were called "US Volunteers". They were not Regulars and were not National Guard.

Here's a rundown I found on the 4th U.S. Volunteers - they saw service (but it doesn't appear much action) in Cuba during the Spanish-American War:

4th United States Volunteer Infantry[edit]
Mustered In: 2-25 June 1898 in the District of Columbia, Virginia, West Virginia, and Maryland
Mustered Out: 8 June 1899 at Camp Meade, Pennsylvania
Service Beyond the United States: Cuba Leaving the United States: 12 October 1898
Arrival in Foreign Country: 18 October 1898
Leaving Foreign Country: 11 May 1899
Returned to United States: 16 May 1899

Mustered In: Officers: 46
Enlisted Men: 962

Mustered Out: Officers: 44
Enlisted Men: 738

Total Number Accounted for on Muster Out Roll: Officers: 74
Enlisted Men: 1,106

Losses While in Service: Officers: Promoted or Transferred: 14
Resigned or Discharged: 15
Dismissed: 0
Killed in Action: 0
Died of Wounds: 0
Died of Disease: 1
Died of Accident: 0
Drowned: 0
Suicide: 0
Murdered: 0
TOTAL OFFICER LOSSES: 30

Enlisted Men: Transferred: 102
Discharged for Disability: 50
Discharged by General Court Martial: 7
Discharged by Order: 167
Killed in Action: 0
Died of Wounds Received in Action: 0
Died of Disease: 9
Died of Accident: 2
Drowned: 0
Suicide: 0
Murdered or Homicide: 0
Deserted: 31
TOTAL ENLISTED LOSSES: 368


Wounded: Officers: 0
Enlisted Men: 0

[butlersrangers]

Thanks Rick for explaining "USV" Regiments. I was confusing them with Regular U.S. Army regiments with same number. You saved me wasting effort and making blunders!

BTW - It appears the issue of some Model 1898 Krag carbines to the 4th USV Infantry, on 03/18/1899, must have occurred while they were in Cuba (18 Oct., 1898 to 11 May, 1899). Less than three months later, 8 June, 1899, they were 'mustered out' at Camp Meade.

[butlersrangers]

I found mention of the 5th U.S. Volunteer Infantry, Co. H, moving from Santiago de Cuba (3/20/1899) for Guantianamo (spelling?).... "as Mounted Infantry". (The 5th USV infantry was in Cuba from 8/14/1898 to 5/3/1899).

Mallory's 'Appendix' in "The Krag Rifle Story", 2nd edition, documents Krag carbines being issued to Companies in three USV Infantry regiments, the 4th, 5th, and 9th USV Infantry. (The 9th was recruited in New Orleans as 'colored-immunes').

All three of these USV Infantry regiments existed for about one year and were in Cuba, after the armistice with Spain. These units are also documented as receiving model 1896 Krag rifles. I believe the issue of carbines was very brief and for police and mounted infantry service.

My review of Mallory's list shows the following totals for issue of carbines:

4th USV Infantry, Co. I - 03/18/1899 - a total of 29 model 1898 carbines listed.

5th USV Infantry, Co. F - 03/__/1899 - a total of 38 model 1896 carbines listed.

5th USV Infantry, Co. H - no date - a total of 39 model 1898 carbines listed (One was issued a second time, 03/__/1899).

9th USV Infantry, Co. K - no date - a total of 8 model 1896 carbines listed (One is dated, issued in 1898).

9th USV Infantry, Co. K - no date - a total of 32 model 1898 carbines listed.

This adds up to 146 Krag carbines, issued among four companies of USV Infantry, during part of their service in Cuba. The three regiments involved were stationed in Cuba for approximately 8 months.

100 of the serial numbers were model 1898 carbines. 46 of the serial numbers were for model 1896 carbines.

(As an aside, Mallory's listed serial numbers show one model 1896 carbine, #35597, being issued, 04/30/99, to the 25th U.S. Infantry. There has to be an interesting story there)!

[jon_norstog]

Thanks guys. I never would have guessed. I wonder if it was officers and topkicks who got the carbines? Or maybe they were used for police duty?

jn