1896 Krag Carbine (early S/N)

[joemel12]

Good evening to all. A member od the forum suggested I post some photos of another 1896 Krag Carbine I recently acquired. Before doing I'm introducing myself as a 63 year old new to the addiction of collecting USGI Martial Weapons. My collection goals are to have examples that span the era of the Krag to M-14/M1A. Living in South Carolina but born a raised a Yankee, I've traveled the country now settled. I spent some in the RVN 71-73 as a Navy Corpsman;FMF Medivac. My collection is intended to pass on the history of men who carried the arms as well as the story of the weapon to my three sons and grand children.That said back to the title or topic of the post. I have photos attached of my latest example with a question that remains unanswered. The majority of the Krag Carbines I possess have blued or evidence of blued receivers. Others though as the photos attached have a mottled silver/gray metallic character . My only research has shown that some Krags were left case hardened and never blued with no rhyme or reason as to why. I doubt we find a soldier or Marine who wants to carry a shiny metallic weapon onto a battlefield. After reviewing the attachments please let me know you thoughts on what I have and thoughts on the noted receiver color difference. Thanks for any replies and knowledge you share.

Joe

http://imgur.com/jrbIjW6

http://imgur.com/ulWetAL

http://imgur.com/686se1z

http://imgur.com/CR8QX7C

http://imgur.com/P4Jxmwk

http://imgur.com/5ZRB5b8

http://imgur.com/8Tn8FiS

http://imgur.com/z3lgqLl

http://imgur.com/X46hXeQ

http://imgur.com/TObaZyn

http://imgur.com/SN6oOg8

http://imgur.com/2scYG0N

http://imgur.com/1uaq1a5

http://imgur.com/iaYSpON

[Rick the Librarian]

Welcome to the forum!! You'll find a lot of helpful people here -- they've been VERY patient with me, so you should be a snap in comparison!

[BEAR]

Welcome to the forum!! You'll find a lot of helpful people here -- they've been VERY patient with me, so you should be a snap in comparison!

Not to mention we are all terrified of a full expo on the Afghan, so we must be nice to you.

[Rick the Librarian]

You mean THIS??

[BEAR]

AAAAAARGH! My eyes, my eyes!

[joemel12]

Rick,
Snuggling up in an Afghan has taken on a different meaning for me. Very nice example. I'm referencing the Krag not the Afghan.
Joe

[psteinmayer]

LOL... As long as it's an Afghan (throw), not an Afghan (from Afghanistan)! Heehee

[Rick the Librarian]

For the benefit of Joe, our new poster, back in my early collecting years, I used to take quick pictures of new rifles in a chair covered by a rather "colorful" afghan my mother made before I was born. As you can see, the afghan received considerable "comment"!

[dave]

To answer posters question. Receivers were case hardened and then blued, blue just does not penetrate well on case hardening, wears rather quickly compared to non-case harded steel.

[madsenshooter]

I would like to look, actually saw a few of the pics. You're right it is an early carbine, made shortly after the 1896 Cadet rifles. I guess my firefox browser doesn't like where the images are posted, after the 5th browser crash, I gave up.

[Dick Hosmer]

When I visited Rick last August, wearing my darkest sunglasses, even in gray-skies Washington, the first thing I asked to see was the afghan, but he mumbled some excuse about not being able to find it. I'd think that thing would glow right through a closet door!!!!! Actually, my first wife, bless her soul, made one almost as vivid - made it hard to sleep.

[Rick the Librarian]

Dick, all kidding aside, what do you think of the offered 1896 carbine?

(P.S. Make another trip up here and I'll GUARANTEE I'll have the afghan displayed in all it's glory!)

[butlersrangers]

IMHO and experience - Casehardened Colors, in various states of wear and fading, reflect the original Armory finish on a Krag receiver. This finish is quite fragile and in time goes from 'Water quenched mottled colors or Sperm oil quenched black-blue' to a kind of 'silver gray'.

Krag receivers that appear darkly 'blued' have probably, at best, undergone some pre-WW1 re-build and, at worst, a Civilian 're-finish'.

The posted pictures appear to me to be a receiver that acquired a heavy surface rust, that was aggressively cleaned with abrasives, leaving speckled areas of surface rust.

(Photos showing about as good as a Krag can survive).
beaut-8.jpgbeaut-0.jpg

[joemel12]

Butlersrangers
Thanks for the feedback. I've tried my best to locate anything looking like rust while stripping her for cleaning. Why the question is I that have a few Krag carbines varying in SN range. Three purchased from the same collector with two having this mottled appearance and the other not. His collection was vast. His answer had to with an alleged inconsistency as to the temperature the receiver was heated to. Supposedly the same is what lead to the development of a lighter 30-40 Krag load. In this I'm only the messenger and not speaking with data. Form my limited collection of Krag rifles and carbines, no rhyme or reason, some have this same mottled aging and the others typical aged bluing. Hence the question. I've looked for any type of scarring on the receiver and metal work from use of an abrasive scrub and found none on any of the examples with the mottled appearance. Your logic is sound and thank you for sharing. I'll have to be more cautious on purchases going forward.
Thanks,
Joe

[butlersrangers]

'joemel12' - To the best of my understanding and from observation, Krag receivers that have not been refinished will have mottled colors. Sometimes they are obvious 'case-colors' and sometimes various hues of gray & black.

The receivers were case-hardened and quenched at the end of the process. Water quenching blackened them and the scale was carded off. (Sperm oil quenching like on Trap-door Springfield blocks gave more vibrant colors). With some surface wear, case hardened receivers begin to look 'silvery'. The surface is tough and hard, but, the color is not.

The pictures of your receiver look to me like someone once cleaned it with courser grades of 'steel wool'. There is what appears to be surface scratches. Your dark patches look like black rust stains (I sure could be wrong. I am looking at your internet pictures and not the real thing). BTW - You have a nice looking model 1896 carbine!

Attached are 3 example pictures: #1. Shows a Krag loading-gate with strong mottled grays. Bubba pencil-graved his SS# through the tough surface finish. #2. Shows rather vibrant case-colors. #3. Shows typical worn subdued mottled grays.

I think these examples show a progression of wear on the Krags' case-hardened finish. When first manufactured, the Krag did not show a dark homogeneous 'Blue' color on its receiver like more modern guns and finishes.

bubba-1.jpgScott-krag.jpgSTGM-GB2.jpg