M-1 Carbine Myth vs Reality

[Tuna]

That and many of the men who were sent into Korea had little to no range time with their rifles. Many had a hard time telling distance and using the adjustable rear sight had it set too high or too low to make hits on target. Those who still had the original rear flip sight did much better with hits on the enemy.

[firstflabn]

Superstitions evolve from a series of unverifiable anecdotes, endlessly repeated. The Army tested, investigated, and explored every conceivable element of ground warfare. Instead of endlessly repeating fantastical anecdotes, adherents should use their time to look for "actual tests" by Aberdeen, Infantry School, etc. (not just by well intentioned websites).

There were numerous complaints lodged in "actual reports" about the carbine's cold weather performance in Korea; none I have seen on penetration. Since no one has yet turned up test reports on these subjects, I would suspect the reason is, in both cold weather and supposed penetration complaints, that the claims were too dumb to justify any followup effort.

I would be happy to be proven wrong. Until then, 'not established' would be the most generous interim verdict for the rational amongst us. However, the anecdotes retain their entertainment value.

[shadycon]

When will people learn that Carbines and Garands are two totally differ firearms. The .30 carbine and 30-06 are not the same. Use a little common sense, if you have any left! IMHO

[High Plaines Doug r]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45359[/ATTACH]

There's a lot of variation between M1 carbines when it comes to accuracy. My CMP Italian return is capable of quite good accuracy, certainly better than I expected when I got it, but the Italians took real good care of it. The attached picture shows a target I put 15 rounds of S&B fmj into at 100 yards using my range bag for a rest. The flyer is entirely my fault. It isn't M1 Garand accuracy but still not bad at all The little rifle will definitely hold "minute of thorax" at 200 yards.

My carbine as I received it, did have occasional failures to feed, about once every 100-150 rounds or so, but re-springing it fixed that almost entirely and now any failure is very rare. I should also say that an M1 carbine feed or ejection malfunction is very, very easy to clear in my experience.

Magazines are always semi expendable and damaged magazines are always a source of malfunctions. Add to that the fact that M1 Carbine magazines aren't the most robust I've ever seen and I can understand a high turnover rate.

I count 16 rounds in this target but the group is about what I expect from my 1961 DCM gun at 100 yds. (including the flyer).

[sdkrag]

Lt. Col. John George who served on Guadalcanal and in Burma with the Marauders stated in his book "Shots Fired In Anger" that his testing showed the .30 Carbine would penetrat a Japanese helmet which satisfied his requirements.

[Art]

This is a Paul Harrell video on the power of the M1 Carbine. In addition to testing a variety of brands and bullet types of .30 Carbine ammo; he compares it to three different .357 Magnum loads fired from a lever action rifle. He also compares it to 5,56mm NATO M193 ball with interesting results.

It is a bit long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Eg3TKkpTY

[S.A. Boggs]

The carbine round is not a bad little round and in a handgun it is "hot" to shoot. I load mine with a Lee 120 lead gas checked at 1400 fps using Lyman #2. In many carbines never a problem with leading of the gas system. I once ran 1800 rds straight in my carbine one afternoon to get it to stop, it wouldn't and it was sizzling!
Sam

[Floyd1977]

Two of my seven carbines can hit a torso target regularly at 300 yds. They group 1 & 1/2 - 2 inches at 100 yds while the other five group about 4 inches at 100 yards.

[BlitzKrieg]

Fact is the carbine is always compared to the M1 Rifle and then found wanting. If we had test subjects , I think we'd find the carbine was exactly what it was intended to be ...replacement for a 1911 pistol. So, in a perfect world , line up a squad of North Vietnamese soldiers (see I told you in a perfect world..my perfect world for test subjects), shoot some at 10 yards and some at 50 yds with a carbine and same test with 1911, one would find the carbine did as good or better than the 1911 and % of hits with carbine far better because in the military, we never trained to shoot the 1911 very well. In Special Forces we always did but in normal Infantry Divisions, they trained poorly with 1911 and qualification was not too hard to do.

Now I have no combat experience with the M1 Carbine but my wife as a teenager helped defend her house during Tet 68 with a M1 Carbine . She has no complaints with how things shook out ! She has a carbine under her side of the bed to this very day. She's deadly with it.