The M1 Carbine as a Defensive Tool

[High Plaines Doug r]

Art that image....middle school kids defending their bedroom with a carbine?

I'll say it....bad idea.

Thanks for your opinion, Karen...

[jcg&jmbfan]

Thanks for your opinion, Karen...

You just insulted a lot of Karens out there......

[lyman]

What's the weak spot of the Carbine? The magazines, specifically the thin sheet metal lips deforming just enough to interfere with feeding.

So the idea is....let a kid keep one under his bed, with a full mag nearby? A mag which may or may not feed properly for having sat their loaded for months or longer? Never mind the liability to the parents if the kid takes a turn and does something illegal with the firearm. Ethan Crumbley's parents thought they were doing everything right. So did Nancy Lanza.

One of the real virtues of the Garand system is that the rounds can stay in the clip forever with no issues. Most modern pistols have re-enforced lips and high quality springs so that the mags stay reliable (eg Glock). Carbine magazines like AR magazines were almost considered disposable items. All this said I do have a few loaded AR mags in the house. They are PMAG gen3 with the top clip on them, to take the load off of the lips.

well, that's like your opinion man,

and lets see,,
Carbine magazine issues,

never really experienced or heard such a thing

but I only have a few dozen of my own, mags that is, and do not shoot the one carbine I have much,
did shoot it at perry once,

have shot quite a few M2's,

never had an issue,

and yes, had some loaded for years,,,


now, re the liability to the parents,

did you allow your kids to shoot when they were young?

I know a few folks who lost kids to shooting accidents when they (the kids) were young,
terrible thing, affects the parents for life, even it they could have not done anything different

and I know many many more that were shooting at that age, some competitively,


re Lanza, ,her son was known to have issues, and she enabled him,
do you think the girl in the pic has issues?

BTW that looks like an Oleg Volk picture, he tends to do well produced pictures that are aimed, pun intended, at sparking some degree of controversy to bring home a point,


so back to the mags, they , like most magazines, and enblocs, are disposable, for the most part,

M16, AR15 or Carbine, the feed lips don't wear when they are loaded for long periods,

very long periods, like years, but then again,
I shoot GI mags in my Carbine, and my AR's and M16's get GI 20 or 30 round mags,

I have tossed one mag, in 40+ years of using and AR, one,

and I tossed that in the shooting bag, and marked it for 2 or 8 round, since there is a helluva dent in the side from who knows what,

but it will hold 2 or 8 and feed flawlessly,

[lyman]

You just insulted a lot of Karens out there......

this made me LOL

[togor]

The point isn't if the girl has issues....the image is hypothetical.

The point is that kids are supposed to be kids, not deciding life v. death. If the adults put them in that situation then the adults have failed them.

Kids brains don't work the same as adult brains. Something every parent of a teen knows only too well.

For home defense, there are better, newer alternatives to a M1 carbine. But maybe the actual need is so unlikely that it's a theoretical argument. Hopefully that stays true for everyone reading this.

My opinions, YMMV.

[lyman]

The point isn't if the girl has issues....the image is hypothetical.

The point is that kids are supposed to be kids, not deciding life v. death. If the adults put them in that situation then the adults have failed them.

Kids brains don't work the same as adult brains. Something every parent of a teen knows only too well.

For home defense, there are better, newer alternatives to a M1 carbine. But maybe the actual need is so unlikely that it's a theoretical argument. Hopefully that stays true for everyone reading this.

My opinions, YMMV.

so about those feed lips,


ever have an issue?
we know you have a Carbine or 2, you have posted about them here,


and re the M4\M16\AR mags, the HK steel mags that came out, and were supposed to be the bee's knee's when they did, were not only heavier than the Alloy mags they replaced, but also would bend like crazy if they were dropped, ,

[togor]

My own experience with M1 carbines is going to be definitive? That seems unlikely.

If I say yes I have feeding issues, then the answer will be: go get them fixed, because I don't have them with my setup.

If I say no I don't have feeding issues, then the answer will be: see that proves that carbines are good.

My carbines are collector items, and I don't take them out to play very often. The ones I shoot cycle adequately. Occasional misfeed IIRC but not enough to detract from a range experience.

In 5.56 AR mags, I have some C-products stainless ones that I consider unreliable. The PMAGs work well. Go-to mags would be Okay Industries.

In M1911s some mags work well, others do not. I have WW2 mags that feed more reliably than some of the surplus NOS contract mags that the CMP sold shortly before M1911 sales kicked off.

I have a Yugo M57 (9-round TT) that came with a couple of mags, one of which works well, the other does not.

I've mentioned my dad's old Sport King .22LR that is is effectively a single-shot system because of feed problems.

So to repeat.....not saying a carbine is a BAD HD choice. I am saying....issuing them to teens for home defense speaks to bigger problems, and in my personal opinion there are better choices out there for home defense when it comes to feeding reliability. But as has been said many times and in many places., personal experience and skill with an individual firearm trumps all. People should defend themselves with the weapon with which they have the greatest proficiency, and that proficiency should include clearing stoppages too. If that is a M1 carbine for someone well alright then.

[lyman]

so that is a no?

[togor]

so that is a no?

As stated, occasional misfeeds on collector guns.

[Art]

Art that image....middle school kids defending their bedroom with a carbine?

I'll say it....bad idea.

First, Lyman, it is an Oleg Volk pic, good catch. You are also correct that his images are intended to be controversial.

The brains of human beings aren't fully developed until the early 20s, according to current orthodoxy. That doesn't mean younger people aren't capable of sometimes making good decisions under duress.

Would have I trusted our daughter to keep a loaded carbine in her bedroom when she was say...14 probably not. Our son....probably yes. Did either actually keep a gun in their bedroom....no. Should children be trained....yes.

A link with numerous cases of the use of firearms to "repel borders" by children. If it doesn't work I'll post some of the individual articles later.

https://www.lawnews.tv/examples-of-k...d-themnselves/

[lyman]

thing about that pic,


did she actually have that carbine stored in her room?

the pic is just a snapshot in time, we cannot see what may or may not have happened 5 minutes , days or seconds before,

bump in the night and she had access to the safe or gunroom? parents our of town or out for the night and the carbine was Dad's (or Mom's ) HD stored in the parents bedroom?


Volk does some good work , makes you think a bit,

[Art]

I think the last line on the Volk image is the point to me - "Train your child."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenager-opens-fire-on-three-armed-men-after-attempted-burglary-killing-one

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/12...ent-police-say

The site I posted above actually has dozens of these from all sorts of media.

There is a belief on the left that a rape victim is morally superior to an attempted rape victim with a gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

[lyman]

I always felt like the M1 Carbine was a little unreliable in their mil-surp condition. Granted I'm shooting commercial ammunition, which might be weak in comparison to GI surplus?

I never felt the need to reload .30 Carbine...but who doesn't want a few more dies on the reloading bench.

maybe just a bit of a difference in burn rates for the powder?


not sure if the carbine has similar reloading requirements like the Garand, re pressures

I have dies, but have not shot any reloads,,, yet