?'s about a 6.7 million Inland

[Tuna]

Carbines are NOT 03's and there is a big difference between them. 6.2 million made in less then four years by eleven different makers. Hundreds of different sub contractors and a committee that oversaw all production and improvements. Production was everything with carbines. Get them made and delivered ASAP. Parts did not stay in bins for very long and sometimes those bins were all empty as the parts were slow in getting to those makers. As I said you cannot compare the 03 to the carbine. Production was completely different.

Mr. Ruth is still around. He just published his latest update on War Baby. If you want to get into collecting carbines then I suggest you get a copy of War baby and read it from cover to cover. I think you will have a better understanding of what it took to make over 6 million carbines.

[Ls6man]

I realize carbines are not 03's....and I'm familiar with their manufacturer. I'm also familiar with lateral support and have spoken to Larry Ruth on numerous occaisions..have both of his books and ordered the 3rd book this week. I never said I was "new" to collecting carbines...just that I'd been out of it for about 13 years. I sold off a pretty large US and German collection in the late '90's and early 2000 to move back into muscle cars. I've owned most of the carbine manufacturers but concentrated on Inland and had at various points very early, early, mid, and late feature rifles (including M1A1's). When I sold off everything in 2000 a few of the M1A1's brought over $5k apiece..and went into big collectors hands off here. So while I have been away for a while..and want a refresher course as the information on the 'net has greatly increased.. I'm not brand new to this..

My whole point is even Duff, Canfield, or Ruth hasn't seen enough rifles to make 100% definative statements about some things and having an open mind and looking at everything as a whole sometimes is the best way. I would agree it is unlikely the handguard for this rifle is original to the serial...but then again who knows...I (nor you I believe) wasn't assembling them at Inland.

BTW.."Big Larry" isn't Larry Ruth..it is Larry Reynolds who back in the mid-late '90's was a very senior member on CSP (while more of a '03/Garand/shotgun guy...he had a great carbine collection)..maybe that was before your time???

[Tuna]

This has become a useless thread.

[Ls6man]

My whole point simply was if you only rely on a text book to evaluate a rifle..carbine or not..then you run the risk of replacing an original as manufactured part with a "text book" correct part which wasn't on the rifle in the first place..There are things such as wear patterns, looking for information from other rifles close to serial, etc..that should also be used. Whether you want to admit it or not..as you pointed out there were over 6 million carbines made..and how many truly original rifles has Ruth, Canfield, the carbine club, etc looked at and evaluated..MAYBE 30,000 (and that is probably WAY high)..so collectively maybe .005% of all the rifles made. Sort of puts it into perspective, at least for me..

If by me making that point it offends you...I'm sorry..but if so then you need to really get out of collecting IMO. This thread didn't apparently become "useless" until I made a point you didn't like. It is funny...Maybe this particular board hasn't changed that much in 13 years..then it was largely made up of the old "Gun and Knife" guys and "outsiders" used to complain about the secrecy of it or the apparent if "so and so" says something..it is gospel mentality..Lately I've heard from guys on other boards that attitude is still here...maybe so...the jury is out on that for me..

I'm sure some one learns from each thread posted..I know I do...so to me this or any thread isn't "useless" as I'm by no means an "expert" or "guru"

Thank you though for the information and whether you believe it or not...I appreciate your post and the insight

[Tuna]

Just so you know I have been collecting carbines since 1972. I have or had in my collection early and late Inlands including M1A1's. Early and late Winchesters including a four digit Winchester. An IP that is all original IP as well as all of the other makers of the carbine. I have or had firearms from all of the countries that fought in WW2. Some have been sold or trade to improve my collection as most collectors do. If you think I just rely on books or CC news letters your vastly mistaken. Every single book and the CC has errors in them. I have been fortunate to have very good relationships with many dealers and have looked at and noted many firearms they have gotten in and there have been surprises in some of them. But to tell me that in your opinion I should get out of collecting is quite insulting and yes you are very opinionated. My mistake was to try and get you to see something that was out of place and in reality you know it is out of place but have decided to argue it with what if. Well I will not argue with you and as I said before this thread has become useless. Hope you have a good weekend.

[Ls6man]

No one is arguing "what if" as whether or not the handgaurd left the factory on that carbine or not..you nor I will truly ever know. Will I change it...who knows...if I want a "text book" rifle..then "yeah" but I have others for that...it is a solid rifle regardless. My whole point was simply that dismissing something based on it not fitting a book or what is commonly known or accepted is wrong.

Ever seen a Remington '03 marked "03a3?" I have..true transitional rifle...do the books even show it? "Nope"...yet know the guy well who sold it a few years ago and got a chance to inspect it..Stuff does happen as these were never meant to be "collectible."

As far as my comment...it was my opinion...and last I looked I was allowed to have one. If you didn't like it or it bothered you that much..sorry. BTW..I didnt take offense to your opinion...just how you presented it. We can agree to disagree.

[Johnny in Texas]

Nothing is ever 100% in this type situation but i'm sure anyone could theorize a way an Underwood barrel got on a late inland or anything else for that matter. What if the production manager at Inland needed to get one more carbine made to get a big bonus and they were short one hand guard so he went to the testing range and removed on from a test gun that was sitting in a rack not being used. That could have happened but is very unlikely. We will probably here that story repeated sometime in the future as well as many other theories.

[jimmyzwei]

and they were short one hand guard so he went to the testing range and removed on from a test gun that was sitting in a rack not being used. That could have happened but is very unlikely.

Actually the scenario is not that far fetched, just being able to prove it to provide provenance is.

While manufacturing Howitzers, I have actually directed that parts be removed from a test gun to be used to make the monthly schedule of a new production gun (18 months of "on time" delivery record at stake). Parts were replaced on test gun the next week, but had we waited for them we would not have made the previous months delivery. Now proving that it happened is another story, which is why it happened in the first place.