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In the book "They Were Ready. The 164th Infantry in the Pacific War, 1942 - 1945" there is a statement that on the night of the 24-25 October 1942, Seabees were the last line of defense for the airfield. They were armed with pistols and M1 carbines. I was wondering if anybody has any documented proof that the M1 carbine was issued and in use that early on Guadalcanal. I would think that pistols and M1903 rifles would be more likely weapons in the Seabees hands.
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I don't think that Garands even appeared on Guadalcanal until the Army arrived to relieve the Marines."There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will." - Robert Service -
Speedgunner is right. There were no carbines or M1 Garands on Guadalcanal till the Army came ashore. The first use of the carbine in combat would be during Operation Torch in North Africa. The Marines were treated as second best back then and the Army got all the good stuff first.Comment
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Seebeas were not MarinesPhillip McGregor (OFC)
"I am neither a fire arms nor a ballistics expert, but I was a combat infantry officer in the Great War, and I absolutely know that the bullet from an infantry rifle has to be able to shoot through things." General Douglas MacArthurComment
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The 164th Infantry received M1 rifles while training at Camp Claiborne, LA in 1941 prior to Pearl Harbor. I've always wondered if any were in gas trap configuration.Comment
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Might have been M17's also.Comment
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No the Seebee are not Marines but like Marines are part of the Navy and since the Army always has felt the Navy was secondary to them they did not get carbines or M1's till later as the Army controlled there distribution.Comment
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"...The Marines were treated as second best..." More by the Navy Dept. and their own higher-ups than anybody else. M1 Rifle wasn't adopted by the USMC until the Fall of '42.
"...in gas trap configuration..." Gone before The Rifle was in full production.Spelling and grammar count!Comment
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The Marines on Guadalcanal had Reising model 50 and 55s SMGs ( pictures exist ) and it is rumored that model 60s were there , too ( though no pictures exist AFAIK ). Being how the 60 is the long barreled semi-auto version of the 50 , perhaps the Seabees are the source of the 60 sighting rumors and the 60s the source of the carbine rumor ?
ChrisComment
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Can Do!, author Huie's semi-official Seabee history, quotes extensively from an account by the CO of the 6th NCB, Commander Joseph P. Blundon. According to Rottman, the 6th was the only NCB on Guadalcanal until early Nov 42. The 6th sailed from SF on Jul 21. Here's what Blundon had to say about his battalion's early days:
The men in our battalion had not been together more
than ten days before we left the States. We had been given
our medical shots, a little hasty military indoctrination, and
then we had been formed into a battalion and rushed to the
South Pacific. We didn't kid ourselves. We weren't a trained
military organization; we were just 1100 partially armed
civilians. We had one '03 rifle for each two men. That was
all that could be spared us.
Without a footnote citing a period document, I would dismiss the carbine claim entirely. The author may have understood that Seabee units later were close to 100% equipped with carbines and leapt to an unsupported conclusion.
Good eye by the OP. Trust but verify.Comment
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They would have adopted the M1 Garand sooner IF they had been given the chance to have it and it wasn't the higher ups in the Navy. It was the Army refusing to release it to them. That is why they had to use the Johnson rifle and were very surprised by it being as good as it was. If it had been a better bayonet platform they very well may have kept the Johnson but the thin barrel didn't support use of a bayonet very well.Comment
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Well, here is a little circumstantial support for the idea that the Seabees might have had carbines on Guadalcanal. I own an early Inland carbine-- 20951 with a 7-42 barrel excellent original condition. It came from the estate of either a "Marine officer" or a "Seabee officer". I believe that he was a Seabee officer because the estate also had a M1911A1 with clear plexiglass grips where the officer had placed photos of his wife-- I figured it was more likely a Seabee who would do this rather than a Marine. Anyway, here is evidence of an early carbine in the hands of a Seabee officer out in the Pacific. I can't say this is direct evidence of use on Guadalcanal, but it is possible date-wise-- just saying for what it's worth....
Bill M.Comment
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No it is not. The man could have had that issued anytime after the Army landed on the island or later on when the Navy finally got the new weapons released to them. The weapons came from distribution points in the country and when an order came in the weapons were shipped out. There are no records of when a certain carbine came in and when it was finally shipped out to a unit. Early carbines very well could have been sitting on the bottom of the pile for quite awhile before being shipped out and that does make sense as a large order from the Navy could have emptied a distribution center of all their carbines as they would have taken many thousands at a time.Comment
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Well , there WERE carbines on Guadalcanal , but the question was if they were issued to the Seabees . My good friend , Jim , was there and he says a FEW officers in the Marines had them for field trials . When they were pulled of of the island , the carbines were sent back in for examination . So I don't think any would have been CB issued at that time . This is why I thought maybe Reising Model 60s.
ChrisComment
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