Another Weird Cartouche, well to me anyway

[wsfbernie]

I've seen many "struck" cartouches over the years. I currently am working on an M1 stock that actually has
RAISED letters. They are the letters "RA" in block, left side of the butt in about the middle. There is no
indentation of the wood fibers, just the raised letters. No periods either. No grain damage to the wood.
Is this an early post-war rebuild at Raritan? Actually, I'd like to know how the wood was raised without
sinking the surrounding wood. The marking was discovered when some old oil was removed. It could not be
seen til then. Oh yes, I did not use any steel wool or sandpaper----just some solvent. Thanks again for any
input. The letters are about 1/2 inch high and stand alone, no frame line or other markings.

Pictures added later on in this blog.

[1mark]

Please post a picture

[Rick B]

Heavy water damage can do this. Rick B

[RED]

I don't know diddly about cartouches, but have worked with some old wood. Consider the following, the stock was finished, inspected, and the cartouche applied. It was a light strike but broke the wood fibers just under the finish. Years go by and you come along and apply a solvent. That removes the dirt and debris that had filled the slight indentation over the years and allows the solvent to penetrate. Those now unprotected fibers absorb the solvent and swell... Presto a raised cartouche.

[Sunray]

In Washington State the air will do that. snicker.
Water/steam or solvent will not raise anything above the surface level. Water/steam will raise dents to level with the surface, but not above.
Also possible somebody glued his initials on using wood letters.
"...discovered when some old oil was removed..." Must have been a great deal of accumulated crud.

[wsfbernie]

RA on M1 butt, 8-22-16 001.jpgRA on M1 butt, 8-22-16 004.jpg Heck, I know these picts aren't very good, but I'm proud I even did the technology required!! One can actually feel the raised letters with a fingernail. Raritan rebuild?
Never seen a raised cartouche before.

[Dan Shapiro]

IIRC, back on the old Jouster forum there was a lengthy discussion about such cartouches and the phrase was coined by someone describing them as "ink stamp cartouches". As to the how was covered above by Rick B and Red. Anyway, about one month after the discussion, another member reported that he'd just observed several "fresh" ink stamp cartouches on stocks offered at a local gun show. Close inspection showed that they were indeed "ink stamps". Just goes to show the fakers pay attention to what we post.

[Chaz]

I also remember a discussion in the "old forum" (c 2005-8) about this topic. As I recall, there are/were stock cleaning procedures that will produce raised lettering. There were cautionary statements about not sanding them off. Come on Old Timers, help me out here. I don't recall any comments about ink stamping.

[M1Riflenut]

I also remember a discussion in the "old forum" (c 2005-8) about this topic. As I recall, there are/were stock cleaning procedures that will produce raised lettering. There were cautionary statements about not sanding them off. Come on Old Timers, help me out here. I don't recall any comments about ink stamping.

I remember the ink stamping threads but not sure about stock cleaning methods that will raise the lettering. There was talk about it making the stampings more visible because the wood swells up and makes the stampings seem deeper. Soaking the stock in washing soda in a tub has been known to do this as well as strip the old finish off. Then the era of the dishwasher cleaning came around and folks were saying that made the stampings deeper.
I have a WRA WB stock that has light stampings that appear raised vs dented in. It also appears unsanded and original finish. Rick B had looked at the pics of it and suggested moisture caused this and I believe he is right. Wood will obviously swell up when it absorbs water, but on a stamping that has broken the fibers of the wood, those fiber ends where cracked and broken can also warp and presto, raised wood at the stamping. Thin wood warps when moisture gets to it, and that just what the broken fibers of wood are at the stamping. JMHO.

[fjruple]

I have seen these raised letters occur when steaming dents out stocks during the refinishing process.

--fjruple

[duke133]

Way late but thought I'd chime in. I have an original Rock-Ola carbine that has what you described on the comb. It is a raised RA bur very small. You can feel it with a fingernail as I noted in my data sheet back when. I knew I'd seen something like that before but can't recall if I ever posted anything on the carbine forum or not after I discovered it, and that was long after I acquired it.

[Bodyman]

It was sanded.

The wood was sanded after the cartouche was applied. It then was exposed to something to raise the grain back to the original level. But when it came back up to its original level, because some of that original level had been removed it ended up proud or above it.

Think about it - it can only ever get back to the level at which it was made. If it ends up above it, it can only mean that some of that original level had been removed while it was down.