Lend Lease M-1 on AA

[SPEEDGUNNER]

This is a pretty one, and seems like it went cheap. Is the market going soft on Garands?

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14901982

[Roadkingtrax]

In that price range, the market is always soft unless deep pockets are looking. Nice rifle, fair price.

[RCS]

There are a few parts that are not consistent with a Lend Lease rifle from that time period. Some examples a follower assembly should be a
revision 8 and the elevation knob is checkered. I am unable to view a good photo of the cartouche. These rifles had mint SA GHS cartouched
stocks when sold. Without viewing the internal parts or Lend Lease stamps it is difficult to estimate value but may have sold for more than it
was really worth

[Bill D]

RCS, that was my feeling also.

[RCS]

Thanks Bill D for your thoughts on this rifle. I bought my first Lend Lease rifle while in high school and have collected data sheets on these rifles for
a long time. A person could buy a revision 8 follower for around $69 and a SA checkered elevation cap for $100, but you just don't know if that is
all you need. There is a $400 to $600 price difference between a fake rear sight group and original rear sight group - especially the pinion and flush
nut. I would have wanted photos of the pinion and flush nut to be safe. Also I would have wanted a better SA GHS cartouche for the money as it is
about impossible to find a really nice SA GHS stock and if you do - it will run $1200 to $1600

[Sunray]

Whoever refinished that rifle ruined any collector value doing so. No red paint on the refinished stock, for example. Even though the S/N is in the Brit Lend/Lease range there's nothing about that one that proves it is such a rifle. Kind of odd they'd refinish the whole thing except for the gas plug and cylinder lock though.
British proofs have nothing whatever to do with Lend/Lease. Every milsurp sold through England has the 'BNP' stamps. Nothing indicates that rifle was ever accepted by the Brits either. No broad arrows anywhere.

[JimF]

. . . . . Every milsurp sold through England has the 'BNP' stamps. Nothing indicates that rifle was ever accepted by the Brits either. No broad arrows anywhere.

Not quite, Sunray . . . . not quite . . . .

My lend-lease came back state-side through the London proof house, so there are NO “BNP” stamps.

Nor are there any “broad arrows” anywhere. —Jim

[RCS]

London proofs on 1940 barrel

Early S-A 8-40 (exc condition) barrel with London proofs.

Dave McClain provided some data sheets on two four digit rifles with S-A 8-40 dated
barrels, one also had the London proofs like the photo. Believe these were direct conversions
from the gas trap. P1010023_1_0019_019.jpg

[JimF]

Yup, RCS . . . .

That’s the London stamping I have on my LL also.

It shows the raised arm with the simitar over the letters “NP” . . . instead of the crown over the “BNP” for the Birmingham proof house.

Someday, I would like to find out if the Birmingham mark, “BNP”, stands for “Birmingham Nitro Proof”, or “British Nitro Proof”.

Someone must know, eh?

[dryheat]

If you run across a LL here in the states it's probably going to have been messed with some. Case in point: A buddy picked one up at the gs. It was being sold by relatives of the fellow who brought it over from England years(and regulations)ago. It was his shooter. He varnished it as usual. He replaced the flush nut sights with NM sights. A couple of other things. It didn't have an uncut oprod. But it is still pure in the respect that it wasn't "corrected" by Bubba. Well, then it got "corrected" some and to me that's where the history ended. End of story.

While we're on the subject; what was the point of Proofing everything that went though Britain? I have never understood this.

[EdG]

I see this L-L rifle has been relisted.

I do question the knurled elevation cap on this serial number. Obviously, and to his credit, the seller is surprised to see the knurled elevation cap, also.

The earliest I had seen the knurled cap on apparently original rifles is Jan. '42. This rifle is in the Nov. '41 range.
The gas cylinder may also be suspect based on the appearance of the finish and the lack of staking of the stacking swivel screw.

In pic #44, I believe I do see an 8 in the middle of the follower which would be correct for this serial number. The 8 on the end would also be correct.

The cartouche is GHS small wheel.
I would have liked to have known the length of the stock throat - short or long. It appears to be short to my eyes. Either long or short would be OK but I would have expected to see the long throat at this time.

RCS ,isn't that the earlier clip ejector spring which can be seen in the pics of the trigger group?

[RCS]

Ed, Can not tell by the photo if the clip ejector is early or not. I took apart my trigger housing from my SA 380931 Lend Lease
rifle, it has the early clip ejector. I think the elevation cap was changed and the elevation cap screw do not appear to be original,
also the Lend Lease rifles really had nice matching color hand guards & stocks. Do not like the G in the GHS, maybe just the angle

My Lend Lease has a nice SA GHS but a small wheel and long stock throat

[Rock]

Whoever refinished that rifle ruined any collector value doing so. No red paint on the refinished stock, for example. Even though the S/N is in the Brit Lend/Lease range there's nothing about that one that proves it is such a rifle. Kind of odd they'd refinish the whole thing except for the gas plug and cylinder lock though.

You guys are tough critics. That rifle looks like a beautiful, original finish M1 to me; metal and wood. It looks like it may have been issued and has minor wear and dings. The cartouche looks nice. I have seen LL rifles with almost no staking of the screws; flat looking. As for the elevation cap, who knows if a few of the new caps got thrown into a bin of the old ones at the the start of production.

[RCS]

I have a number of Lend Lease data sheets (nothing like the 200 + that Brian Case has) and can not find a knurled elevation cap until
the late 500K serial number range, maybe Ed B. might have additional information.

Ed, some collectors use to believe there was a medium length SA GHS throat while others just thought they were modified long throat.
I thought that I found some years ago.

[EdG]

Agree that some collectors and researchers are thinking that there are three different distinctive GHS throat lengths on average.
In my info, I note 2 3/16", 2", and 1 10/16". These numbers are averages, not overly precise measurements.

I do have a Nov. '41 rifle that ,to my eyes, shows apparent grinding on the throat area. The throat is now at 1 12/16". The area of apparent grinding starts at about 2 3/16".
I have seen two or three other rifles in the Nov. '41 range that may be modified.

I went back and checked my info and I do show a Dec. '41 rifle with the knurled elevation cap, 406097. It is a London proofed Lend-Lease sold on Gunbroker in Feb. 2010.
The next rifle I have seen with the knurled cap is Jan. '42, 430971.

So far for Jan. '42 I have seen seven rifles with the knurled cap and three with the checkered cap.
From Jan. '42 thru June '42, I show 47 rifles with the checkered elevation cap (430582 - 644791) and 46 with the knurled cap (430971 - 690243).

Unfortunately, I have seen or heard of several otherwise original rifles in the 500K range that have had the knurled elevation cap changed with a checkered cap.

Rock, I agree with your take on this rifle. I believe it would be a nice addition to a collection.
My observation on the gas cylinder is based only on what I can discern from the pics. The stacking swivel screw appears to have a nub or nose on the end which made me question it. I, too, have seen rifles with no apparent staking.

I believe the finish of the cylinder might only be honestly evaluated by a hands-on inspection.

I acquired a L-L rifle that looked somewhat suspect due to very few pics which were not very clear on an auction site. When I received the rifle and looked it over carefully, I was satisfied the rifle was A-OK.
May be the same with the gas cylinder on this auction rifle.