Long post.. M14M and/or M14NM

[PaFrank]

From a lengthy discussion with some friends.....

Word is that back in the DCM days, M14's were issued to state organizations and were designated semi-auto.

They were designated as M14-M (modified) and M14-NM (National Match)

At the time Jack Rollinger was the secretary of the Army for the National Board for the promotion of rifle pracrtice.

Supposedly, Jack received a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury (not sure if it was solicited or what the circumstances were) but the result was that Jack Rollinger received a letter from the secretary of the Treasury (BATF) declaring that rifles designated as M14M or M14NM were deemed to be Type I weapons and NOT subject to the NFA.

Supposedly the guy that was talking about this knew Jack and claimed to have seen the letter.

He and we have been trying to resurrect a copy of this letter as it could free up a bunch of rifles out from the NFA.

Attemped to go through the Freedom of Information Act, but curiously there isn't a path to request anything from Treasury that we found..

Any help any of you can provide would be appreciated.

[Art]

this has come up before. My understanding is that any M14 rifle receiver, even if modified to make it incapable of being converted back to automatic fire, still comes under the BATF "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule. Even if the letter could be found and authenticated the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice no longer exists, it was abolished in 1997 and replaced with the Civilian Marksmanship Program. How much good documentation from a non existent government entity would do is questionable at best.

Another factor is that the issue (translate that "loan") to a state organization is not a sale to a private person, which is the possibility I think is what you're getting at.

Finally, the M14 is still a standard U.S. weapon. It is widely used as a designated marksman weapon and "Uncle Sugar" has come to regret disposing most of its stock through sale to other countries and destruction. I suspect every M14 in the inventory will be kept until wear takes the receivers out of spec. and they are scrapped

[PaFrank]

Art, thanks but I think you missed the point.

A letter supposedly exists from the Sect'y of the Treasury specifically exempting the M14M and M14NM rifles only and declares them as Title I weapons. And if a copy of hte letter can be located or proved then those rifles are not classified as machine guns and not subject to the NFA

[lyman]

guns were loaned to various State teams, and handed out to individual members,

they were allowed to take them home and keep them as long as they continued to shoot w/ the team,


IIRC, the selectors were replaced with the selector lock, and were welded in place (just a tack weld)

during the early part of the 2000's, they were all recalled,

.gov took them back, and sent a pile to Crane and off to Smith or another contractor to make DMR's for the .mil that needed them over in the sandbox, (if you remember, Bill Clinton had piles of them sent to Anniston, and thru Cpt Crunch (as indestroyed)


none, supposedly, are still in with the teams,

while I did not shoot with the Va State Team, I do know a handful of folks that did shoot and did have a M14, match prepped, from the program,

they were all turned in


so if anyone still has one,, then they may want to turn it back in,



btw, I don't recall ever seeing any different markings on the receivers, but it has been almost 20yrs since I have seen one

[nf1e]

Rumor control has it there a number of the Team M14s semi auto only in storage just looking for a way to be released.

[lyman]

Rumor control has it there a number of the Team M14s semi auto only in storage just looking for a way to be released.

at anniston?

would be costly to rebuild,, but would be nice if they could use them as loaners,


they used to load out M1's during the Garand Matches at Perry,,, don't think they still do

[nf1e]

at anniston?

would be costly to rebuild,, but would be nice if they could use them as loaners,


they used to load out M1's during the Garand Matches at Perry,,, don't think they still do

That's the story and it did come from a retired CMP horse's mouth. Same guy told me about the 1911s years before they were released.

[Sunray]

Suspect you'll find the ATF knows all about that sort of thing and doesn't care. They'll very likely say, "What happened in 1976 doesn't apply now.".
They were running around several years back confiscating semi-auto only M-14 receivers and got away with it.
Been saying for years you guys need to scream at your elected representatives about unelected civil servants being allowed to make law by regulation. I'd appreciate it you also get 'em to stop exporting their stupid ideas too. My semi'd Winchester is virtually worthless now because our idiot government adopted the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" nonsense.

[lyman]

That's the story and it did come from a retired CMP horse's mouth. Same guy told me about the 1911s years before they were released.

Anniston had the 1911's for a good while, that was common knowledge I thought, since they were either team or loaners for the Nationals ,

or so I was told years ago

- - - Updated - - -

Suspect you'll find the ATF knows all about that sort of thing and doesn't care. They'll very likely say, "What happened in 1976 doesn't apply now.".
They were running around several years back confiscating semi-auto only M-14 receivers and got away with it.
Been saying for years you guys need to scream at your elected representatives about unelected civil servants being allowed to make law by regulation. I'd appreciate it you also get 'em to stop exporting their stupid ideas too. My semi'd Winchester is virtually worthless now because our idiot government adopted the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" nonsense.

those semi's they confiscated were made from parts or rewelds of real NFA type M14's,

ATF has always had a once a machinegun, always a machinegun policy,

[Ted Brown]

In 1979 I was President of the Nevada State Rifle & Pistol Association which was not affiliated with the DCM when I took office. I contacted Col. Smith, Director of the CMP, and got the NSRPA affiliated and ordered up M14 rifles for the state rifle team. The DCM sent ten M14NM rifles by mail. Most were in used, but serviceable condition and there were three brand new, unissued, TRW NM rifles. It was a lot of fun opening those boxes! The association issued the rifles to those members who were shooting high power rifle matches and they made up the state rifle team. I didn't keep track of them after leaving office so I didn't know what their status was when the CMP ordered them turned in. I do have a copy of the letter, signed by Charles Maddox, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the CMP ordering the return of the M14 rifles. It was dated 8 January 2007 and required the rifles be turned in by 15 May 2007. According to the letter the Board decided the rifles should be turned in because in the 2006 National Matches, only four percent of the competitors used M14 or M1A type rifles and there was concern about the security and accountability of these rifles.

I'm sure that this was not the whole story. At the time the M14 was in wide use as an EBR and DMR in the services. However, I know for a fact that the M14NM rifle I was issued by the National Guard was turned over to the Air Guard and was being used as a parade rifle. Apparently the military had a lot of different uses for these fine match rifles. I don't know if the CMP is sitting on a bunch of M14NM rifles, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[lyman]

also remember the CMP selling a lot of M14 parts kits years ago as well,