Parkerizing on WW2 M1 Rifles- zinc or manganese?

[kb466]

As the title says, I'm wondering what kind of parkerizing was used by SA and WRA on their M1 rifles in WW2 to give that medium to dark gray finish. Since I understand manganese reportedly gives off a black or very dark color, I'm thinking it is possibly zinc-- is this assumption correct? Thanks!
Bill M.

[RCS]

There were a lot of colors to the M1 rifles before and during WW2. Early pre war SA with the smooth blue-black and pre war Winchester with the DuLite blue, the SA
Lend Lease olive colors to the mid war color to the light color by 1944. There are still enough examples around.

[kb466]

Thanks for your input. I am familiar with the various shades on WW2 rifles, but was wondering what the base parkerizing that was used before the "coloring" was added-- zinc or manganese?
Bill M.

[Orlando]

What coloring?

[kb466]

I am wondering what was used to get the medium gray. Am I wrong in thinking that it was zinc, because the manganese would have been too black?
Bill M.

[Dan Shapiro]

Scott Duff on "parkerizing"..............

http://www.hotflashrefinishing.com/Parkerizing.htm

[kb466]

Thanks all for the responses. I still don't have an answer as to what was US spec. parkerizing during WW2-- in other words, was zinc phosphate or manganese phosphate the type of parkerizing specified for WW2 production?
Bill M.

[Latigo 1]

I am wondering what was used to get the medium gray. Am I wrong in thinking that it was zinc, because the manganese would have been too black?
Bill M.

I am not sure what you are trying to describe. Most original rifles I have seen were either dark, almost black, or different shades of charcoal grey/green. As far as I know grey parkerizing was done at some of the rebuild facilities. I think both zinc and manganese was used during WWII, but even zinc can be very dark, depending on the type of chemicals and the process used.

[swampyankee]

kb466 it's like beating your head against the wall isn't it. The question is, did they use zinc or manganese or both. Does anybody know?

[kb466]

Yes, I guess that is really my question. I know that the parkerizing color could be changed or darkened, but what was the approved method of parkerization during WW2- zinc or manganese?
Bill M.

[jcj54]

As the title says, I'm wondering what kind of parkerizing was used by SA and WRA on their M1 rifles in WW2 to give that medium to dark gray finish. Since I understand manganese reportedly gives off a black or very dark color, I'm thinking it is possibly zinc-- is this assumption correct? Thanks!
Bill M.

Due to manganese being critical for other war production, zinc phosphate was used. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerize

[Latigo 1]

The link you posted said that zinc was "the most common" phosphate used. That leads me to believe that both zinc and manganese were used during WWII. That is the same info I got from another source years ago. I don't remember what that source was, and can not verify how accurate it is. I do know that zinc park is not necessarily a light color. I have seen very dark parts that have been parked with zinc. Also the process used during WWII is not exactly the same as your home parkerizing kit you buy today.

[StockDoc]

I don't think either would be wrong. Darker or lighter could be cause the age of the tank chemicals or a contaminant in the tank, the oil bath after the phosphate, or even a contaminant in the sand used for blasting. Both Zinc and manganese were necessary in the manufacturing of war metals. Good question though.