this really broke my bubble with the M14 even MORE!

[Major Tom]

This must be the longest thread in Jouster history!

[da gimp]

Tom, there are more than a few of us here that are/were dyed in the wool Garand/M14 lovers, not the least Former Cav & myself... this series dern sure hit very close to home with our favorite rifle the M14... don't get us wrong we own multiples of AR 15 rifles, both in Sevice Rifle set-up & the old Colt CAR-15/XM1777/M4 carbine types........ for their intended jobs they are fantastic.... But after reading & digesting this thread... I'm betting that more than a few of us has already built or intends to build an accurized AR-10 style .308 Win rifle & perhaps carbine too... using all the tricks that good smiths have learned on building a Service Rifle tuned NM type AR-15 series .223 Rem rifles......with flat tops & rails... it'll make for a helluva dependable "deer rifle" and one having more punch than our .223 Rem in social situations........


Me, I love the Winchester designed .358 Win cartridge... a dependable AR-10 in that with a 10 round mag would make a dandy dangerous game rifle for North America,... until a .30-06 length AFFORDABLE AR style rifle is made that I can build a .35 Whelan Improved or possibly even a .375 Ruger semi auto AR 10...talk about dreaming.....damnn they would be sweet. As fast as a double rifle for the second shot... with a 5 round or 10 round mag....heck my wife might not even notice that it was in the house...A fella can dream... right...?

[Major Tom]

I'd love to have a AR in .308, but cannot afford right now. I have garands and .223 Ar's.

[da gimp]

same here hand.....

[Griff Murphey]

I hauled my issue one out and am going to shoot it at the Texas Garand/vintage match in the modern military category. It's just like the one I had at ROTC advanced camp at Fort Sill in 1970, in fact I am carrying it in my avatar pic. In my humble opinion they wrung the last of the clunkyness out of the Garand design and came up with the best handling most accurate full power military rifle ever. It balances like a sporter... Just feels right. As a college kid in the late 60's I watched so many of those old E-6 E-8 army shooters, wrinkled necks burned brown by the sun; starched fatigues with razor creases, spit shined boots, and most importantly positions like machine rests, shoot possibles... I forget his name but the guy who wrote that book - THE GUN - on the AK and kind of derided the M-14 as a "target rifle"... I think he may be right although it may not have been THE rifle for Viet Nam (neither was the M-16 which he also condemned as "the accidental rifle"). I have hunted with mine and taken turkey and deer and shot it in 3 gun. Just a great rifle; it feels right.

[Major Tom]

I used to own one of the first M1As out of Devine, TX serial number in the low 0240's. I constantly had issues with rounds not fully chambering. So, I sold it for $500, a $250 profit for me at the time. Now I wish I had it back if for just a safe queen.

[da gimp]

it's the same here Griff... the M14-M1A just feels "right" when you're shooting one....... the recoil is negligible and that rifle positively builds a sweet spot nest on my shoulder... my cheek weld with one is instinctive & it's as if they designed the issue stocks with my measurements as the ideal........

[PhillipM]

I've always wanted an M14 type rifle and have shot a few of them but then I pragmatically thought about the advantages over an M1 and didn't find any worth spending $2k on a new rifle.

I considered the following points.

1. "White gas cut-off and expansion system". Garand rejected this system back in 30's and I've seen it mentioned he never liked it. I figure JCG knew better than I what the better system is, so I've never researched why he didn't like it. Next comes from Gus Fisher. He said it took them a long time to ever get an M14 to shoot as well as the best Garands and one the tricks they had to resort to was trying a bucket full of gas pistons until they found one the rifle liked to shoot. As a civilian, I don't have a bucket full of pistons to try. No drill bit needed for cleaning an M1.
2. Detachable magazine. I am of the belief that the detachable magazine was included in the design because of it's selective fire capability and in a semi-auto I don't see where a 20 round magazine is needed except maybe in some action shooting competition where they design the game around changing magazines. The M1's clip feeding is much easier while firing prone or in a fighting hole. If I need a battle rifle for social work, I'll do just what the GI's did, grab a couple of bandoliers and go.
3. Bedding. Due to the detachable mag there is less receiver leg contact area with the stock with the M14, therefore the M1 should hold it's bedding longer.
4. Has anyone noticed the M14 is LONGER than the M1?
5. Caliber. Since the M1 can be had in the superior .308 cartridge, that's a wash.

In the end, I concluded a 1-11 or 1-12 308 Garand will do anything I'd ever ask an M14 type rifle to do and I can achieve that with just a barrel swap instead of buying a $2k rifle.

[StockDoc]

Just build a better fighting hole

[Rock]

Detachable magazine. I am of the belief that the detachable magazine was included in the design because of it's selective fire capability and in a semi-auto I don't see where a 20 round magazine is needed except maybe in some action shooting competition where they design the game around changing magazines. The M1's clip feeding is much easier while firing prone or in a fighting hole. If I need a battle rifle for social work, I'll do just what the GI's did, grab a couple of bandoliers and go.

You are right. Most military semiauto rifles had magazines no larger than 10 rounds. The rifles with 10 round detachable magazines were normally loaded with stripper clips and the magazines were removed only when damaged or when required for maintenance. The 8 round enbloc clip of the M1 and the fixed and detachable 10 round magazines of other designs were considered adequate for the rate of fire a semiautomatic rifle could produce. My M1A is a semiauto rifle. I use a 10 round magazine and I never remove it. I load it with stripper clips. However, I prefer the enclosed magazine and the enbloc clip of the M1.

Has anyone noticed the M14 is LONGER than the M1?

That's because of the flash hider. The flash hider had to be longer than necessary because the bayonet lug is part of the flash hider. The end of the flash hider needed to be longer to reach the ring of the bayonet.

[nf1e]

During my summer camp experience in RVN in the late 60's one mag stayed in my M-14 most of the time. The 4 mags on my pistol belt never had a chance to see light other than cleaning and reloading. The mag in my rifle was topped off many times from a bandoleer with stripper clips.

Semper Fi
Art

[PhillipM]

During my summer camp experience in RVN in the late 60's one mag stayed in my M-14 most of the time. The 4 mags on my pistol belt never had a chance to see light other than cleaning and reloading. The mag in my rifle was topped off many times from a bandoleer with stripper clips.

Semper Fi
Art

Were you taught to do that or was it a personal choice? Are you saying the four mags on your belt were not used unless it was an emergency?

[nf1e]

Were you taught to do that or was it a personal choice? Are you saying the four mags on your belt were not used unless it was an emergency?

Suggested by those that had gone before me. In the Marine Corps, you learn to listen to the gents that have experience. Keep your belt mags in reserve. Aimed fire is quite effective on a man sized target. Ammo generally stays nice and clean in a bandoleer. Sand and other junk tends to infiltrate the mag pouches, at least in my experience.

[Griff Murphey]

Suggested by those that had gone before me. In the Marine Corps, you learn to listen to the gents that have experience. Keep your belt mags in reserve. Aimed fire is quite effective on a man sized target. Ammo generally stays nice and clean in a bandoleer. Sand and other junk tends to infiltrate the mag pouches, at least in my experience.

I'm wondering if you had the USMC single mag pouches or the Army type double mag pouches. The marine corps pouches had a top flap only, open at the sides, whereas the army type had a box-like top.

But....The army ones had the disadvantage of being like a pair of bricks when you went prone.

[nf1e]

We had the single pouches. As the years go by, I have developed that brick over my belt when I go prone. Nothing that the loss of 50lb wouldn't cure.