"Lend Lease" M1s?

[JimF]

. . . . During the proofing process crossed sceptres with an initial on the left and right side of the X formed by the sceptres were applied. Can you make out those initials, with the right side most likely being a B.

Johnny . . . .

I believe the mark you describe is the Birmingham proof mark . . .

London also proofed some of these LL rifles, using a "arm holding a raised simitar aloft", over the initials "NP".

It could be either proof house mark on Chaz's rifle.

Chaz . . .

How about removing the front handguard and carefully examine the lower band for any hint of red paint on it's interior? --Jim

[Johnny P]

The Birmingham proof mark is a BHP/Crown. The crossed sceptres I describe identifies the year of proofing and the inspector that did the proofing. By far the largest number of L-L M1 Rifles were proofed at Birmingham, but you are correct that it could be London proofed.

[Griff Murphey]

I asked my Brit friend Geoffrey if he remembered seeing any US weapons in Korea in British hands. He was a "Rock Ape" RAF regiment guy, the RAF's version of our Security Police, basically the RAF's private army. He said the only US weapons he saw were a few Thompsons. Mainly they had Stens and No. 4s. He hastened to add he was not in the infantry but would ask some other UK Korea vets about M-1s.

[Chaz]

"During the proofing process crossed sceptres with an initial on the left and right side of the X formed by the sceptres were applied. Can you make out those initials, with the right side most likely being a B."

Give me a day to break into the vault and look. Chaz

[n64atlas]

The Birmingham proof mark is a BHP/Crown. The crossed sceptres I describe identifies the year of proofing and the inspector that did the proofing. By far the largest number of L-L M1 Rifles were proofed at Birmingham, but you are correct that it could be London proofed.

Crown BHP? It would be Crown BP for WWII era and Crown BNP for post 1954. There were a lot of M1's that went thru the UK post 1954. These got the BNP proofs and some the London proofs. None of these were lend lease though. My M1 has these late proofs and was advertised as a LL. Turned out to just have went through Britain. One of the keys to identifying LL is the barrel stamps being upside down compared to other M1's

[Johnny P]

Typo on the BNP. Have never seen one of the L-L M1 Rifles with a pre 1955 British commercial proof. While other M1 Rifles did go through England and were commercially proofed, only the 1941 and 1942 rifles in virtually unissued condition were Lend-Lease, or there has never been an explanation as to where else they might have come from. The later British commercial proofed M1's were usually Korean War era well worn examples.

[Johnny P]

One of the unissued Lend-Lease Rifles with a 10-41 dated barrel, commercially proofed at Birmingham Proof House in 1955.

[RCS]

S-A 8-40 barrel

SA 8-40 barrel with London proofP1010024_1_0020_020.jpg

[Johnny P]

Years ago a friend had a photo from one of the wartime magazines with a British home guard holding a gas trap rifle.

[Chaz]

Here are some hasty photos taken this evening with poor light. Even with a magnifying glass, I can barely make out the proof marks. They are on the right side of barrel. There is a spot of red paint on the lower band. The band of red paint seems to have been delineated by a scored "ring" around the handguard. And there is the remains of a white painted stripe on stock. Barrel is stamped (upside down) SA 1-42.

[Chaz]

Edited pic of proofs

This is a little better but I need to photograph in daylight.

[Johnny P]

It is Birmingham proofed, but can't quite make out the letter on the left side of the crossed sceptres. Taking closeups is where a tripod becomes necessary. The photo I posted was taken under normal room light, but with a tripod.

[Chaz]

Tripod is in garage with spotting scope. This will take me through the weekend to attempt to take a clear photo. Proofs look like they were put there by a chinaman high on opium but I'll try to get a clearer pic.

What is the significance if any of the red spot on the lower band? It appears to have been purposely put there.

[Johnny P]

The M1 Rifle was not in standard British caliber, so the red band with the .30 caliber making was applied so that hopefully no one would try to put .303 ammunition in it. The other U.S. rifles in .30 cal. (.30-06) sent to England were also marked in the same way. Over the years most of the markings have been removed.

[Chaz]

JP, I understand that. I was referring to the clear red dot on the lower band. It does not look like a drip mark but a definite spot that "appears to have been purposely put there." Maybe the painter's name was "Kilroy."