"Lend Lease" M1s?

[EdG]

I would be pretty sure that the date code is F on Chaz's rifle. The F used by Birmingham is weirdly stylized making it difficult to discern. I've yet to see anything other than F under the op rod, but I am open to correction.

Chaz, I have seen that scored "ring" around the handguard often on rifles that have had the red band removed. Many times there has been a trace of color in that scoring.
Thanks for pointing out this "ring". I've often wondered why it is seen on some handguards. I did not make note if the scored handguards show up on the handguards painted only on the end or if those guards painted in the middle are also scored.

I'm not sure why the red dot would appear on the back of the lower band as it does. The first thought would be that it is a slop-over or paint dripped as it was heading for the front handguard. But the uniformity of the dot could certainly suggest it was purposely put there. I myself have not seen that before.
I have seen the red paint slopped all over the place, including the gas cylinder and the stock. Some rifles did have the front of the stock and the rear handguard painted (I've seen only three of these), but I have seen paint on the stocks of some rifles that had only the front handguard painted.

[Johnny P]

The red bands and caliber marking were crudely done and nothing more than a warning of caliber, and I would suspect a drop of paint just happened during painting.

Here are two Remington 1903 L-L rifles.

[Johnny P]

This is one of the L-L M1 Rifles with the marking between the gas cylinder loops. The proof house probably figured out that it was easier to mark them out on the barrel rather than on the chamber. This one has an L in the crossed sceprtres indicating proofing in 1960.

[1/501]

barrel marking M-1-1.jpg

My nickel's worth. SA 406,XXX range. I sure wish they'd have not partially covered the barrel date!

[EdG]

Great pics, Johnny P.

My feeling is that the rifles in the first batch to be proofed (apparently 1955) were stamped under the op rod. The rifles in subsequent batches were stamped on the muzzle by Birmingham probably because it was easier to do so since Birmingham used such a long set of characters. London apparently continued to stamp under the op rod, maybe because London used fewer characters .

I've not yet seen a Garand with a serial number in the Lend-Lease time frame that is London-proofed on the muzzle. Unfortunately for us collectors, London did not use a date code, so we don't know in what year a rifle was proofed by the London house.

I have noted that those rifles stamped under the op rod by Birmingham have the crown over BNP facing to the right on the top of the receiver ring and on the right operating lug of the bolt. London also stamped the bolt on the right operating lug but stamped the receiver on the side under the hump of the op rod handle when the bolt is closed.

On the Birmingham muzzle-proofed rifles the crown over BNP on the receiver and on the bolt face to the left. The mark on the bolt is on the top front of the bolt and not on the lug. I believe, but memory may not be serving me correctly, that the Birmingham proofs on the muzzle always face left. The location of those muzzle proofs may vary but many are as seen in Johnny P's pic above.

I have seen only K and L date codes on the muzzle and only F under the op rod. I have seen some date codes on the muzzle that look to be the letter I but that may be a poorly struck K or L since the I was supposedly skipped.

I have seen very, very few London marks on the receiver and on the bolt that are discernible. Most of these look like smudges or dings.

Currently in my database, 72% of the serial numbers are Birmingham proofed and 28% are London.
Of the Birmingham serials, 60% are stamped under the op rod and 40% are stamped on the muzzle.

[Johnny P]

The rifle shown with the proofs out on the barrel is an early 391000 serial number range. It has the BNP on the top of the receiver read from muzzle end, and on the flat of the bolt just behind the lugs.

[EdG]

Johnny P,
I have seen a 600K L-L that I believe is marked like that. It was on an auction site but the pics were not clear enough to tell which way the stamps were facing.

Can you post pics of those BNP stamps on the 391000?
Thanks.

[Johnny P]

Johnny P,
I have seen a 600K L-L that I believe is marked like that. It was on an auction site but the pics were not clear enough to tell which way the stamps were facing.

Can you post pics of those BNP stamps on the 391000?
Thanks.

Receiver and bolt BNP marking on M1 Rifle 391085, SA 11-41 barrel.

[EdG]

Johnny P, thanks for the pics.
Is the bolt -2SA RE4D ?
Is the follower stamped with an 8 in the middle or on the end?

The BNP I saw stamped on the 600K L-L bolt was farther back than on yours. It's neat to see these variations. Thanks for sharing.

[Johnny P]

Johnny P, thanks for the pics.
Is the bolt -2SA RE4D ?
Is the follower stamped with an 8 in the middle or on the end?

The BNP I saw stamped on the 600K L-L bolt was farther back than on yours. It's neat to see these variations. Thanks for sharing.

Correct on bolt, and 8 is in middle of follower.

Will get pictures of other rifle later.

[Johnny P]

Photos of 378852. Receiver marking is typical, but again bolt hardly marked, and at other end of bolt.

[Johnny P]

Also, have you made anything of the letters on the sight cover, which were struck after finish. Since you hardly ever see an original early rifle, the L-L rifles are the only place I have seen them.

[Tom Doniphon]

Johnny, I'm not aware of anyone who knows for certain what those rear sight cover marks are. Likely inspection or proof marks. And like you said, seen only on early rifles from 1940 to around mid 1942. Didn't Winchester mark them with a punch mark?

[RCS]

Springfield rear sight cover markings

Being a collector of some pre WW2 rifles, I have noted the following:

After the drawing number was deleted, you have the plain flat cover which also has a small symbol, letter or number.

By around Nov/Dec 1940 you find the ribbed rear sight cover, also with the above marking

These marking continue into parts of 1942.

Many years ago, Tony Giacobbe made up a list of these rear sight markings and the serial numbers, all of 1941 is covered except for
the early months which data was not available. The first six months of 1942 is also covered. Bothp1010002_0003.jpgp1010004_0005.jpgp1010006_0007.jpgp1010010_0011.jpg Lend Lease and non LL rifles are
in this data. Winchester rear sight covers are not marked with these markings but sometimes a punch mark. The early Winchester
covers are DuLite color. Third from left is Winchester DuLite cover

some of these markings are NR, 2,7,B,J,F,*,T,vv, O, Q,J,X,<,

[Johnny P]

The sight cover on my 63000 rifle has no marking. First photo is of sight cover on 56000 rifle.