What model M16 is this based on the pictures.

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  • Johnny in Texas
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 2201

    #1

    What model M16 is this based on the pictures.

    Recent acquisition by Texas Sheriff Office near port O'connor

    It looks like an early upper with an A1 bolt carrier and full fence lower in

    like new condition.
    I think if I was in LE I would want the forward assist added.
    Attached Files
  • paul v
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 116

    #2
    Late 604 model. Probably around 1970 or later configuration
    Bruce Pullig Retro Black Rifle XM16E1 M16A1 M16 SP1 601 602 603 604 605 607 608 609 610 653 R6000 R6001 R6002 R6003 R6004 R6007 R6010
    Last edited by paul v; 02-15-2014, 12:27.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote" Benjamin Franklin

    Comment

    • joem
      Senior Member, Deceased
      • Aug 2009
      • 11835

      #3
      "I think if I was in LE I would want the forward assist added."

      I have never used the forward assist. If a round will not chamber them there is something wrong most likely in the chamber. Using the assist only makes it worse and I saw a U-tube where a guy had what he thought was a misfire. Used the charging handle and hit the forward assist had several times. When he fired it the rifle exploded. The M16 I carried had no forward assist.

      Comment

      • Johnny in Texas
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2010
        • 2201

        #4
        I have used mine more than once for various reasons. For me the forward assist is only the first step of the repair process or you have to push the pins and seperate the upper from the lower to clear the jam if it will not eject.

        Most of the time I have used it was to push the BCG home because a never fired a "Black Rifle Person" pulled back on the charging handle and milked it closed almost!

        Comment

        • bombdog
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2012
          • 198

          #5
          Yup
          bombdog, out!!!!!!!
          Originally posted by Johnny in Texas
          I have used mine more than once for various reasons. For me the forward assist is only the first step of the repair process or you have to push the pins and seperate the upper from the lower to clear the jam if it will not eject.

          Most of the time I have used it was to push the BCG home because a never fired a "Black Rifle Person" pulled back on the charging handle and milked it closed almost!
          "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends." Jesus Christ !!! JN15:13

          Comment

          • usmc69
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 887

            #6
            Without a Forward Assist it is prior to 1970 or earlier. I enlisted in the Corps (March, 1969) and never saw one without a Forward Assist. We qualified with M14's in Boot Camp. Saw my first M16 in mid May '69 in Infantry Training at Camp Geiger then. All had a Forward Assist (IIRC). In fact we were taught to smack the Forward Assist with the heel of our hand every time we chambered a round from a fresh mag. Was that a hold over from someone's experience in Viet Nam in combat, can only assume so.
            Last edited by usmc69; 02-16-2014, 12:46.
            USMC 1969-1993 6333/8153/9999
            USMC Combat Pistol & Shotgun Instructor
            FBI Rangemaster

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            • epa223
              Member
              • Nov 2011
              • 64

              #7
              I would concur with paul v.

              Comment

              • usmc69
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 887

                #8
                This is copy from Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle )

                XM16E1 and M16A1 (Colt Model 603)

                An early M16 rifle: note "duckbill" flash suppressor, triangular grip, forward assist, and the lack of brass deflector
                The U.S. Army XM16E1 was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist and corresponding notches in the bolt carrier. The M16A1 was the finalized production model in 1967.

                To address issues raised by the XM16E1's testing cycle, a closed, bird-cage flash suppressor replaced the XM16E1's three-pronged flash suppressor which caught on twigs and leaves. Various other changes were made after numerous problems in the field. Cleaning kits were developed and issued while barrels with chrome-plated chambers and later fully lined bores were introduced.

                With these and other changes, the malfunction rate slowly declined and new soldiers were generally unfamiliar with early problems. A rib was built into the side of the receiver on the XM16E1 to help prevent accidentally pressing the magazine release button while closing the ejection port cover. This rib was later extended on production M16A1s to help in preventing the magazine release from inadvertently being pressed. The hole in the bolt that accepts the cam pin was crimped inward on one side, in such a way that the cam pin may not be inserted with the bolt installed backwards, which would cause failures to eject until corrected. The M16A1 is no longer in service with the United States, but is still standard issue in many world armies.
                USMC 1969-1993 6333/8153/9999
                USMC Combat Pistol & Shotgun Instructor
                FBI Rangemaster

                Comment

                • fjruple
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 175

                  #9
                  Definitely a late Model 604 M16 probably for the US Air Force. The US Air Force saw the forward assist as an unnecessary expense, only the US Army and Marines went to the XM16E1 and M16A1 with the forward assist. M16 (Model 604) production ran concurrently with the M16A1 (Model 603) production.

                  --fjruple

                  Comment

                  • Johnny in Texas
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 2201

                    #10
                    Now the Air Force use makes sense! Barely used or only dropped once condition!
                    When was the Colt AR-15 logo dropped?
                    Last edited by Johnny in Texas; 02-17-2014, 04:48.

                    Comment

                    • fjruple
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 175

                      #11
                      We use to shoot with local air guard team to round out our team in the combat matches. I remember an AIr Force Major shooting a M 16 with serial # 4,000,000. We thought it was a mistake. Later that rifle ended up the local national guard museum.

                      fjruple

                      Comment

                      • Griff Murphey
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 3708

                        #12
                        SP-1 owner here, never had a need to have a forward assist. Shot with the Marines as attached Navy 74-76, used an XM-16E2, and they would tell you to hit that forward assist but I usually did not. Shoot it in the mud or dust, heat it up... 16's were failing after 300 rounds sustained fire at Wanat, yeah you would want that in combat. A clean well maintained rifle should purr along without a forward assist.

                        Comment

                        • GA-Dave
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 289

                          #13
                          When I was in Iraq in 2003 the USAF was still issueing M16s without F/O. They refer to it as a GAU something or another.

                          What type of flash suppressor does th erifle in the OP have? What's the serial number?

                          Comment

                          • Andouille
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 203

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Johnny in Texas
                            Recent acquisition by Texas Sheriff Office near port O'connor

                            It looks like an early upper with an A1 bolt carrier and full fence lower in

                            like new condition.
                            I think if I was in LE I would want the forward assist added.
                            The forums on Retro Black Rifle never really caught on for some reason, but there is an especially active forum on ARFCOM dedicated to that era, and those boys would be very pleased (as in foaming at the mouth rabidly pleased) to tell you all about that rifle. Unlike the General Discussion area of ARFCOM, they're pretty well behaved and helpful. A fair proportion of them are Viet Nam veterans.

                            Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.


                            I seem to recall that the Air Force rifles had no forward assist, because they started looking into buying theirs before the Army. The 601/602/604 series of rifles without forward assist were direct decendents of the "original" AR-10 rifles made under license, and none of them had forward assists either. The 603 with forward assist came later.

                            The Army also had some "slick-side" rifles, as late as 1971, because 5 or 6 of us in my basic training company at Fort Jackson were issued them, including me.
                            Last edited by Andouille; 02-21-2014, 04:49. Reason: slight clarification
                            "There it is"
                            LOAD AND BE READY!

                            Comment

                            • Johnny in Texas
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2010
                              • 2201

                              #15
                              Thanks for the Air Force info. that makes sense. Personally I like having a forward assist. I own an AR-15 SP1 and have had to take it apart to clear a jam. Only once but it is still less than ideal I have used a bullet tip to push the BCG forward also on that rifle. To me it is like having a jack but no lug wrench.

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