National Match

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Found this photo,among many others, but this one simply had the notation "National Match". From the uniforms, I am guessing 1910? I recognize the location, as probably many of you do.

Can anyone verify my date guess?

Anyone recognize that Marine shooter?

jt

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

How about these match rifles? That is the Army Trophy for 1903, and those guys were the winners. No 1903's but I thought the uniforms were interesting for dating.

jt

[IditarodJoe]

Trapdoors?

[clintonhater]

Trapdoors?

Of course, which would make me question the date of that trophy.

[dave]

The guy on right, standing needs to have his pants tailored!

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Of course, which would make me question the date of that trophy.

The 1902 Army Trophy was won with Trapdoors also.

jt

[RCS]

early National Match bullets

The Thomas Pencil point bullets were used with the 30-40, 30-03 and 30-06 for match shooting during
the pre WW1 period but may have last longerdscn1254.jpg

[butlersrangers]

I believe the OP's "National Match" photograph was taken at Sea Girt, New Jersey, based on the large distinctive white dwelling in the background.

The National Matches were started at Sea Girt in 1903, held at Fort Riley, Kansas, in 1904, and moved back to Sea Girt in 1905 & 1906.

The National Matches were first hosted at Camp Perry, Ohio, in 1907.

My guess is that, if the photograph was taken at the "National Matches" in New Jersey, it would date from 1905 or 1906. However, from what I understand, the Sea Girt Ranges continued in use for Rifle Matches by the N.J. National Guard and other states, at least, into the late 1930s.

Early (circa 1903) photos, taken at Sea Girt, show competitors shooting Krags.

National Guard competitors at Sea Girt, in 1908, were using model 1903 Springfields, (regional matches?).

The second photograph, showing a Trophy Winning Rifle Team with 'trap-door' Springfields, is quite interesting. I believe, the two seated officers are wearing 1902 'Bell Crown' Dress Caps. The men standing are wearing the model 1895 Kepi. (I am surprised at the apparent late use of model 1873 Springfield rifles in competition. The photo was taken in a studio. Could the 'trap-doors' be studio props??? There is an extra rifle standing alone in the left corner).

Attached photos: Part of the 1903 Army Team with Krags at Sea Girt - 1903 National Matches, Three photos from a N.G competition at Sea Girt, dated 9/4/08.
NM1903.JPGseagirt-NY08.jpgseagirt match08.jpgseagirt-njng-9-08.jpg

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I believe the OP's "National Match" photograph was taken at Sea Girt, New Jersey, based on the large distinctive white dwelling in the background.

I agree as that building appears to be the Governor's summer residence.

The National Matches were started at Sea Girt in 1903, held at Fort Riley, Kansas, in 1904, and moved back to Sea Girt in 1905 & 1906.

The National Matches were first hosted at Camp Perry, Ohio, in 1907.

My guess is that, if the photograph was taken at the "National Matches" in New Jersey, it would date from 1905 or 1906. However, from what I understand, the Sea Girt Ranges continued in use for Rifle Matches by the N.J. National Guard and other states, at least, into the late 1930s.

Early (circa 1903) photos, taken at Sea Girt, show competitors shooting Krags.

I have a photo showing the Krags used by the winners.

National Guard competitors at Sea Girt, in 1908, were using model 1903 Springfields, (regional matches?).

The second photograph, showing a Trophy Winning Rifle Team with 'trap-door' Springfields, is quite interesting. I believe, the two seated officers are wearing 1902 'Bell Crown' Dress Caps. The men standing are wearing the model 1895 Kepi. (I am surprised at the apparent late use of model 1873 Springfield rifles in competition. The photo was taken in a studio. Could the 'trap-doors' be studio props??? There is an extra rifle standing alone in the left corner).

There is an earlier photo showing Trapdoors also.

Attached photos: Part of the 1903 Army Team with Krags at Sea Girt - 1903 National Matches, Three photos from a N.G competition at Sea Girt, dated 9/4/08.

Neat pictures. Thanks for responding. I was most curious about the trapdoors. Two of the three pictures I have of the Army Trophy winners show trapdoors.

jt

[clintonhater]

If the standing officer in the first photo isn't Townsend Whelen, it's his twin brother.

[clintonhater]

The 1902 Army Trophy was won with Trapdoors also.

jt

Could this have been a match restricted to trapdoors, because many National Guard units had not yet been issued Krags? If not, surprising if the winners in 1902 defeated teams shooting Krags.

[butlersrangers]

'clintonhater' is correct. - The 1903 National Match Army Team picture does show Townsend Whelen. He commanded the Team.

If the OP's 'National Match' picture was taken at Sea Girt and shows the N.J. Governor's 'Summer Cottage', it would have to date from after 1904. This building was originally the N.J. exhibit hall at the 1904 - St. Louis (Mo.) World's Fair. (Following the World's Fair, it was taken apart and reassembled at Sea Girt, N.J.).

1906 seems the likely date if the OP's picture is a National Match photograph.

I agree with 'clintonhater'. It is difficult to imagine .45-70 Springfield rifles "out-shooting" .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen rifles in "head to head" Military Team Competitions in the early 1900s.

[butlersrangers]

I wonder if the "Army Trophy" was a State team shooting prize that New Jersey N.G. shooters competed for prior to the establishment of the (DCM) National Matches in 1903.

On the N.J. State site there is a nice collection of N.J.N.G. and Sea Girt photos.

It appears the shooting team from Co. B, 3rd New Jersey Regiment, was a force to reckon with. They won the "Army Trophy" in 1901, 1902, and 1903!

(photos from N.J. State site):NJ-Co.B-3rdNJ-1901.jpgNJ-Co.B-3rdNJ-trophy1902.jpgNJ-Co.B-3rdNJ-1903.jpg

[butlersrangers]

FWIW: Sea Girt, N.J., 1904-dated, range pictures (The rifles are Krags):

NJ pistol 1904.jpgNJ-Sea Girt camp stokes 1904.jpgNJ-seagirt1904.jpg

[clintonhater]

However, from what I understand, the Sea Girt Ranges continued in use for Rifle Matches by the N.J. National Guard and other states, at least, into the late 1930s...

What, if anything, remains of the range? Devoured by the real-estate crooks?