SRS check on reported USMC rifle... and an early RIA '03.

[kb466]

I own a very nice '03 that I purchased in the early 1980's. It came out of the estate of a retired China Marine who served with the 4th Marines in Shanghai till he retired in 1939. The family said it was his rifle that "he brought home when he retired". I hope that is the case and he didn't pick it up after he retired. Came with sling and bayonet. It is numbered 1009445. It looks to be all original 1918 era manufacture, with no sign of rebuild that I can see. Barrel dated SA 11-18. It is about 85-90% matte blue or smooth dark parkerizing-- don't know which. Wood is very nice, but never sanded. It has a clear circle P proof behind the trigger guard but no cartouche on the side, nor any sign it ever had one. Wood has beautiful old hand-rubbed oil finish, grasping grooves. Perfect bore. No Hatcher hole, no vise marks ahead of front sight base nor stippled butt plate. It does have the USMC front and rear sights, together with the USMC front sight cover. It came to me that way. The sights and cover show every indication they have been on the rifle forever. I'll take pictures of the rifle and post them if people are interested. I would like to know if there is any record of this rifle in the SRS, and if not, what sort of range does this rifle fall into?

The second rifle I am curious about is a RIA #101382. It looks all original, CN 1908 cartouche. Barrel is RIA 11-08. Again about 85-90% original finish-- both blue and casehardening. Stock never sanded. I'm curious if there is any record of this rifle, and if not, what does it look like in its range-- anything special or interesting? Thanks!
Bill M.

[John Beard]

Neither rifle is an SRS hit.

Your description of the USMC rifle is completely consistent with the story that goes with it. Treat us with pictures!

J.B.

[kb466]

John,
Really appreciate your taking the time to check. One more question-- are there any other USMC rifles in or near 1009445? I will get the two rifles out tomorrow and try to take some photos. Thanks again!
Bill M.

[Emri]

Treat us with pictures!

J.B.

Please do !!!

Emri

[kb466]

Deleted

[kb466]

OK-- I think this might work. I'm attaching an album of photos of the USMC '03 #1009445. If this works, I'll do the RIA '03 #101382 next. I surely would be interested in hearing any comments. Thanks!
Bill M.

It didn't work-- so now I am just going to add a link to the album. Maybe that will work. Try clicking on the link below--

http://www.jouster.com/forums/album.php?albumid=271

[kb466]

Here are the photos for the RIA '03 Rifle #101382. Again, click on the link below and it should take you to the album with the photos. Again, comments are welcome and encouraged. Thanks!
Bill M.
http://www.jouster.com/forums/album.php?albumid=272

[03Rifleman]

Those are superb examples you have there Bill and thanks for the pictures! That RIA looks right as rain to me...how did you come across that jewel? If you don't mind sayin'

[kb466]

Thanks for the compliments. I picked the RIA up about 18 years ago. It came from a well-known collector and dealer in this area. Interesting that after I purchased it, I picked up a booklet by C.S. Ferris on the Rock Island '03 and was pleased and surprised to see my rifle cited as a "guidepost example" of an original RIA '03 with original barrel.
Bill M.

Those are superb examples you have there Bill and thanks for the pictures! That RIA looks right as rain to me...how did you come across that jewel? If you don't mind sayin'

[Allen Humphrey]

Beautiful! I notice the RI has the platinum wire inlay on the rear sight.

[John Beard]

John,
Really appreciate your taking the time to check. One more question-- are there any other USMC rifles in or near 1009445? I will get the two rifles out tomorrow and try to take some photos. Thanks again!
Bill M.

Oooo! That's a nice rifle. You should be justly proud.

I have little doubt that the rifle is a USMC rifle and it was taken out of service before 1939. So, it matches the story that goes with it.

In answer to your question, Yes, there are USMC rifles all around your rifle's serial number. And it's not coincidence. From my data base:

S/N 1009309, S.A./11-42 bbl
S/N 1009338, S.A./8-42 bbl
S/N 1009445, S.A./11-18 bbl - your rifle
S/N 1009818, S.A./7-18 bbl

J.B.

[kb466]

John,
I really appreciate the assistance and the kind words. I find it interesting that a Marine could take his rifle with him when he retired-- was there a procedure for that? This particular gentleman had served in the Corps for many years-- like 15 to 20 years according to the family; most in China. He retired as an upper ranks enlisted man.

It is also interesting that the rifle has a later barrel than 1009818 on your list. I was told once that the USMC assembled many or most of their rifles in Philadelphia from Springfield-supplied parts. If so, would this explain the out-of-sequence barrels and the lack of a Springfield cartouche, yet the presence of a "circle P" firing proof? I also think it is great that it came with a 1919 dated bayonet and a 1918 dated sling-- both are dated close to when the rifle was probably assembled. Again, thanks for the help!
Bill M.

Oooo! That's a nice rifle. You should be justly proud.

I have little doubt that the rifle is a USMC rifle and it was taken out of service before 1939. So, it matches the story that goes with it.

In answer to your question, Yes, there are USMC rifles all around your rifle's serial number. And it's not coincidence. From my data base:

S/N 1009309, S.A./11-42 bbl
S/N 1009338, S.A./8-42 bbl
S/N 1009445, S.A./11-18 bbl - your rifle
S/N 1009818, S.A./7-18 bbl

J.B.

[chuckindenver]

very nice....thanks for sharing

[John Beard]

John,
I really appreciate the assistance and the kind words. I find it interesting that a Marine could take his rifle with him when he retired-- was there a procedure for that? This particular gentleman had served in the Corps for many years-- like 15 to 20 years according to the family; most in China. He retired as an upper ranks enlisted man.

It is also interesting that the rifle has a later barrel than 1009818 on your list. I was told once that the USMC assembled many or most of their rifles in Philadelphia from Springfield-supplied parts. If so, would this explain the out-of-sequence barrels and the lack of a Springfield cartouche, yet the presence of a "circle P" firing proof? I also think it is great that it came with a 1919 dated bayonet and a 1918 dated sling-- both are dated close to when the rifle was probably assembled. Again, thanks for the help!
Bill M.

The only procedure I'm aware of for a Marine to take his service rifle home with him is via duffel-bag requisition.

Your rifle's serial number and barrel date are a reasonable match. I am not aware of any USMC assemblage of rifles from parts at their Philadelphia Ordnance Shop. The presence of an encircled "P" firing proof is an indication that the stock also once had a Springfield Armory inspection stamp. Perhaps the stamp was thin and has been sanded away.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Emri]

VERY nice rifles !! Thanks for posting the pics !!

Emri