They were there

[cplnorton]

One thing I've noticed is that ships' Marine detachments sometimes had M1s. There are several pictures of the USS Washington (BB56) with King George VI inspecting the Marines. They obviously have M1s.

Yes sir. Many of the ships Detachments got them first. The USS Washington had 80 M1's.

Do you know when the pic was taken of King George? It looks like the USS Washington was supposed to get their 80 M1's in Jan 1942 according to the schedule to retrofit the Marines.

[Rick the Librarian]

Sorry, should have mentioned the date of King George's visit to the ship -- June 7, 1942. Somehow, I thought it was earlier than that.

[el Woodman]

All this because on another thread, I wrote that the 1st Marine Division at Guadalcanal was the only major battle in WWII where US forces met the enemy primarily armed 5 shot bolt action-vs- 5 shot bolt action, and won. Apparently someone on that thread thinks he's the Professor Emeritus of military history, and everyone else watches too much Star Wars. I do not doubt the veracity of any of the responses on this thread though. And I am WELL aware of the 1st Mar Div's penchant for appropriating anything that isn't nailed down & guarded, and one third of the stuff that is. 1st Bn., 5th Regiment, 1st Mar Div...1/5 Forever! Thank you, Gentlemen...

[RH Scott]

Seems like a logistical headache. After the navy departed shortly after the invasion it must have been a PITA to get 5 shot clipped ammo vs 8 shot clipped ammo to the right units and quantity being they only had a finite quantity at first. Hopefully someone remembered some crates of 8rd clips or guys would be feeling around each morning for last nights clips. Seems pretty silly to equip half a division then move them to a remote island for the first offense of the island war.

[cplnorton]

Yeah somewhere I have documents talking about they didn't have that many 8 round clips, and after they would fire the last shot, they would collect the clips so they could reload them.

For the most part I have no clue how many saw combat on the Canal. At least early on I mean. They had the rifles but mostly they were in the hands of rear echelon Marines.

One interesting thing I saw, the individual Marines did not really carry as much ammo with the m1903 as I would have guessed. On patrol the after action reports state they usually carried 25rds and they never ran out in a firefight.

To me that shocked me, as that just didn't seem like that much. Though they do comment that grenades were more effective and each man carried 2 grenades on a patrol. They stated that they believed the men should have carried more as the grenade was the go to weapon in the jungle on the Canal.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, should have mentioned the date of King George's visit to the ship -- June 7, 1942. Somehow, I thought it was earlier than that.

That is still really early. Think about all the times you have seen online someone saying well the Marines were going to keep their M1903's until they went to the Canal and saw the Army's M1's. Well that is all false.

The Marines wanted to adopt a semi automatic rifle since at least 1936 and probably earlier.

The Marines even declared the M1 superior to the M1903 under normal conditions in early 1941. So to me that June 42 date is still pretty early. Especially comparing it to the urban legend that has persisted a long time on the Marines relationship with the M1 early on.

The funny thing is this legend even existed back then. Post WWII a Marine Commandant actually even wrote a magazine trying to correct this story that the Marines didn't want to adopt the M1 until the Canal. So this has been around a long time.

[Rick the Librarian]

One interesting thing I saw, the individual Marines did not really carry as much ammo with the m1903 as I would have guessed. On patrol the after action reports state they usually carried 25rds and they never ran out in a firefight.

Guadalcanal wasn't the only instance of that happening - about 7300+ M1s got sent to the Philippines before WWII and equipped most of the infantry units of the U.S. Philippine Division as well as the 26th Cavalry. As the vast amount of ammunition was either packed in bulk or 5-round strippers, it was also necessary for soldiers with those units to retrieve their empty clips, if possible, after firing.

Another "myth" I deal with on a fairly regular basis is the one that states that the U.S. Army fought the Japanese in the Philippines "armed only with bolt-action rifles". Such was not the case (although, of course nearly all of the Philippine National Army carried M1917s and a few M1903s).