03 How to mount barrel with no witness mark?

[fguffey]

check headspace,

?

I am not most folks, I am the folk that wants to know the length of the chamber, I want to know 'the clearance'. I am the folk that knows the bolt can close on a go-gage even when the chamber is field reject length. I understand that means nothing to most folks.

I am the folk that would form 280 Remington cases into 30/06 chamber; the reloader that can do that can determine the length of the chamber even when it is .050" too long from the shoulder to the bolt face.

Again; I have a 30/06 chamber that is .016" longer than a go-gage length chamber, "THEY" do not make a gage for my chamber but even that does not slow me down.

F. Guffey

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And the other folk that could 'do it' was Elmer Keith.

F. Guffey

[gjungle56]

Still trying to figure out why this is so complicated to some. Tighten barrel in to your preferred alignment. Mine in this example is the front sight key in the true vertical position. Then check, with component bolt, and ream headspace, if needed, to between go and no go. If you want an exact number I believe there may be gages made in .001 increments. My poor man's way is 7/16 dia shims to put on top of gages, between bolt and gage, to tell you your exact headspace. I still can't figure what this "chamber length" is, and measuring with cases? Is it headspace? If it is, call it headspace and measure with gages. A tip for those who wish to close headspace a bit, try a Browne &Sharpe bolt, I have found them to be about .002/.003 "long".

[fguffey]

A tip for those who wish to close headspace a bit, try a Browne &Sharpe bolt, I have found them to be about .002/.003 "long".

I have 4 B&S bolts, they came two to the box, logic says the two bolts in the box would not be identical; there is not .001" difference on all 4 of my B&S bolts, and then it gets better. I have 25 Remington replacement bolts + the B&S bolts, there is not .001" difference in all of the bolts when it comes to changing the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face.

It is not complicated unless you are trying to repeat what you have been told to say. The first A3 rifle I checked was unique. It only took me seconds to determine the difference in length between the chamber and the case because of the design.

F. Guffey

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A tip for those who wish to close headspace a bit, try a Browne &Sharpe bolt, I have found them to be about .002/.003 "long".

I do not know of anyone that wanted to increase the length of the chamber, and I understand I would be wasting our time if I tried to explain why.

F. Guffey

[gjungle56]

B&S bolts are longer lock lug to breech face. They lessen headspace.

[fguffey]

B&S bolts are longer lock lug to breech face. They lessen headspace.

If that is true I should feel cheated. I am one of the few that has gotten up and walked away from the keyboard to make sure what I was reading was fact not fiction. Again and again and again I went to visit as member of this forum, he was in deep need of help. He did not get it.

He has over 100 03 and 03A3 bolts, at the time I had 35 new old stock bolts. All he wanted to do was shorten the length of the chamber .0025". Before we started I assured him we did not have one bolt between us that would shorten his chamber.

When it comes to checking chamber length from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face I have some most unusual bolts. When it comes to using a pull through reamer the same bolts are considered usual. I have taken them to gun shows, placed them on the table and no one noticed they were different. I did get one compliment; the smith wanted to know why I screwed that HO bolt up.

F. Guffey

[gjungle56]

After a check of my bolts in a stripped receiver, I stand by the B&S bolts being longer. I put the bolts in the stripped receiver and depth miked down from receiver face to bolt face. The B&S bolts (3) were longer, though I found one SHT bolt even longer. I would not feel cheated, as all your bolts are apparently longer. Still puzzled though, how do you check chamber, clearance,and headspace without gages. Do you have some verified dimension cases used for this purpose? If so, how were they verified? Perhaps by defining the terms you use, it would clear up what you are trying to communicate. What is "chamber", "clearance", "usual and unusual bolts" ?

[Sgt USMC]

I'm the OP on this thread. I'm not sure how this got off topic, but I do not believe that I ask about the chamber on this weapon. With most weapons systems, motorcycles, cars, engines etc etc there are tricks of the trade for that particular model. Since I am not well versed on those of the Springfield I came here in the hopes that someone may have faced this situation, before, and if so what solution had they used. I was not trying to start a pissing contest between the esteemed members of this board. That being said. Maybe I should have ask it this way;

How do you make sure that the front sight post, on an 03A3 barrel, is vertical when mounting it on an 03 receiver, that has had the witness mark removed by the previous owner.

Question 2; Does anyone have dimensional drawing of the location of the '"Hatcher Hole" on the same weapon. Thank you everyone who has contributed to this discussion!

[fguffey]

How do you make sure that the front sight post, on an 03A3 barrel, is vertical when mounting it on an 03 receiver, that has had the witness mark removed by the previous owner.

Nothing has changed, you must screw the barrel into the receiver to determine how the shoulder at the end of the threads seat against the front of the receiver. If the sight post aligns check the extractor groove alignment. If the extractor cut aligns and the sight post aligns check the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.

If the chamber is long, move the barrel back, if the chamber is short ream the chamber. If there is a problem with alignment find help.

F. Guffey

Hatcher hole; I never try to fool anyone, I want the hot high pressure metal cutting gas to have an exit. I try to do all of the hot high metal cutting escape gas system done before I worry about the Hatcher hole. I am a fan of checking case head protrusion/case head support. I have always been able to have the case head .090" above the bottom of the extractor cut.

Before someone starts pissing the 03 has less case head protrusion than the Mauser. The Mauser has .110" case head protrusion with an additional .005" clearance.

F, Guffey

[lyman]

I'm the OP on this thread. I'm not sure how this got off topic, but I do not believe that I ask about the chamber on this weapon. With most weapons systems, motorcycles, cars, engines etc etc there are tricks of the trade for that particular model. Since I am not well versed on those of the Springfield I came here in the hopes that someone may have faced this situation, before, and if so what solution had they used. I was not trying to start a pissing contest between the esteemed members of this board. That being said. Maybe I should have ask it this way;

How do you make sure that the front sight post, on an 03A3 barrel, is vertical when mounting it on an 03 receiver, that has had the witness mark removed by the previous owner.

Question 2; Does anyone have dimensional drawing of the location of the '"Hatcher Hole" on the same weapon. Thank you everyone who has contributed to this discussion!

somewhere, and I am not sure where, I have a book that was put out a good while ago that has the drawings for the 1903 , as in machinist drawings,

I would need to look in several places, ,,,,,



meanwhile as Guffey mentioned, things should line up,

one way to do it is put the receiver in a vice and level it, then Starrett and others make small angled (90 degrees) levels, with a bubble on each 'leg',
touch that securely to the front sight post and see if it is upright,,,

[gjungle56]

Ok, getting front sight vertical. I have to assume you have limited measuring tools but the minimum needed would be a flat surface, a scale with a square head, another scale, and some parallels(tool bits, key stock or whatever). The front sight base of an o3a3 is about .720 in dia., the sight blade is .050. After screwing in barrel to a proper tightness, place assembly on parallel under receiver to clear recoil lug and under barrel somewhere to get assembly somewhat level. With scale and square head, place it against front sight base, with other scale, measure from upright scale square to front sight blade. The measured dimension should be .335 which on a scale is between 21/64 and 11/32. Put square head scale to other side of front sight base and measured dimension needs be equal to first side. If more or less rotation needed, adjust as necessary. As for Hatcher hole, I posted dimensions in my first post. It was arrived at by measuring existing Hatcher holes in receivers with this mod already done.