Question on Drill Rifles

[Dave in NGA]

Does anyone have the history of the 03 and A3 drill rifles? Like how many are there? Where and when were they done? How did they select which rifles to use? Who autorized the 'destruction' of these weapons?

I'd just like to know more about how all this happened and what purpose was served by doing this?

[kcw]

The only thing I can say is that the rifles didn't have to be worn out junkers to be taken for drill rifles. The Remington 03 that I received from the CMP had what appeared to be a near new, original barrel. The barreled receiver still had fuzzy Parkerizing. My understanding is that they were issued to organizations such as high school Jr. ROTC, etc. A friend of mine, who was in the Navy in the early 60's, said that he did close order drills with A3 drill rifles while in boot camp. I'm thinking that the work was done post WWII, at which time bolt action rifles were the most expendable long guns in inventory and thus the logical fodder for being converted to drill rifles.

[chuckindenver]

they werent destroyed..they were modified for drill use by the ROTC. it was cheaper to modify surplus rifles rather then buy thousands of Daisy made Drill rifles.
60,000 were sold a couple years ago. 20,000 or so before that.
some are still in inventory..
selected like this...Private? go get 10,000 1903 rifles from surplus storage, hand them over to the motorpool to be modified for Drill Use.. yes Sir...
that simple.
done from the 1950,s clear up to the 1980,s Krags, 1903 1903A3s Garands, and M14s were all modified for Drill use.
and a few 1917s

[Darreld Walton]

After being "modified", they became a new piece of equipment, with a new NSN, and nomenclature. Their purpose was for show, for close order drill, and, if you were naughty, you might end up having to hold it at arm's length, or perhaps walk around the block a few hundred times with it at port arms.
There were apparently only a few things that were a "standard" to make a drill rifle. Stainless welding rod, the welding done via electrical arc welder, the bolt face welded to close the firing pin hole, the firing pin tip ground down, a steel rod driven into the chamber, and a rod "burned" through the chamber and fusing the rod in the chamber to the barrel. Then the barrel was welded to the front of the receiver, and the shutoff was welded so that the bolt could be operated for inspection, but not removed from the receiver.
I've never, ever heard any evidence that would suggest that the mods were to be done in a manner that would allow them to be returned to "A" condition assets as rifles.
They ended up beat, bashed and abused. Anything and everything that would snag hands or uniforms was ground off or removed, like sights, and sling swivels, the stocks were busted and repaired with electrical tape, painted, thrown into trucks and lockers, dropped, run over by trucks, horses in parades, thrown across gym floors, until they were returned to the Army and then to the CMP where they ended up being boxed up and sold in lots of a hundred or more to enterprising outfits who have miraculously moved them to the civilian market as "reclaimed" 03's, A3's and A4's with varying degrees of 'quality' and serviceability...........

[chuckindenver]

a few years ago, the CMP sold complete drill rifles for 40.00, barreled actions for 10.00
i got 10 of each flavor..
some of the barreled actions were new unissued rifles..when they were modified.
a couple of the 1903s were ex match rifles..one still had a brass tag on the stock with a guard units ID, and labeled target rifle 1903A1..ect..
i built some great rifles for my friends and family from these lots...i still own a couple that are my favorite shooters.

[Fred]

In 1977, Missouri State University in Springfield (formerly Southwest MO State) had 75 Mint 1903-A3 rifles that were in a long rack against a wall under the football stadium. They were being retained for drill purposes by ROTC. For the most part, the department drill team only used a select few of the rifles in drill practice that would sustain damages when dropped. The other 70 or so rifles remained unused and except for the bolt faces being spot welded and the cut offs being spot welded in the down position, the rifles remained in unissued shape.

[musketshooter]

We carried 03 drill rifles at Navy boot camp in 1962. I have no idea how long they were used after that.

[kcw]

a few years ago, the CMP sold complete drill rifles for 40.00, barreled actions for 10.00
i got 10 of each flavor..
some of the barreled actions were new unissued rifles..when they were modified.
a couple of the 1903s were ex match rifles..one still had a brass tag on the stock with a guard units ID, and labeled target rifle 1903A1..ect..
i built some great rifles for my friends and family from these lots...i still own a couple that are my favorite shooters.

This is off topic but maybe interesting. About 20 years ago the DCM (I don't believe the CMP had yet taken over at the time) offered to exchange low number 03' barreled actions for like new, high number barreled actions with fitted bolt. A friend of mine took them up on the offer and sent in his low number unit. what he got back was an apparently new, complete A3 rifle in a sealed plastic bag, including new bayonet w/sheath, new web cartridge belt & cleaning kit in the buttstock. The accompanying letter noted that the DMC had exhausted the supply of barreled receivers and asked that he accept the A3 rifle pack instead. Of course he got to keep the remains of his original rifle too.

[Viking Guy]

In the late '60's and early '70's my ROTC high school drill team had 03A3's. The only thing done to them was to have a very weak and small (1/8") spot weld on the underside of the receiver ring and touching the barrel. On a few, you could remove the weld with a file and turn out the barrel! Some did have a piece of steel in the chamber but were easily pushed out with a standard cleaning rod or forced out with a dowel and oil. My college team had the same mods to their rifles though a few had the bolt face welded. I had not seen any other mods until the rash of drill rifles for sale popped up. In Navy boot camp in 1974 we carried a mix of 1903 and 1903A3 rifles, none of which were modified.

VG

[Dave in NGA]

I was ROTC at the University of MO-Rolla in the early 1970's. We had fully functional M14's. We took our weapons on FTX's and fired blank ammo on weekends. We also had a number of M60's. I guess the young men of America were more trustworthy back then. Oh, and we had a shooting range on campus next to the library.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

At Miss State in the 60's, ROTC units used unaltered, fully functional M1's. Everyone had one, as ROTC was compulsory for the first two years. Get in trouble, and Col. Thames made you clean them all. I cleaned them all so many times I could take an M1 apart and reassemble it in the dark. I also mopped a few floors in the ROTC building. Turns out being a friend of Col. Thames' son, Jerry, made no impression on Col. Thames whatsoever.

jt

[Fred]

I was ROTC at the University of MO-Rolla in the early 1970's. We had fully functional M14's. We took our weapons on FTX's and fired blank ammo on weekends. We also had a number of M60's. I guess the young men of America were more trustworthy back then. Oh, and we had a shooting range on campus next to the library.

No, there was just a recall of M-14's and other functional weapons due to changing policy. The M-14's at my college were turned in a few years before. ROTC Did have a .22 caliber shooting range under the stadium though. I wonder if its still there...?

[Griff Murphey]

There was a high school ROTC cadet who shot and killed another kid on a small bore range about 10-12 years ago. This resulted in a decision, nationwide, that junior ROTC cadets of all services would no longer handle even deactivated firearms. Thus was born the Daisy replica 03-A3.

I was in Army ROTC high school and college '64-'71 and my experience parallels those recounted previously. In high school we had a "special forces" unit and the active Army sergeants would check out live, firing 03-A3s to us for use on unsupervised FTX's on farms and the Eagle Mountain Army Air Base/National Guard training center. We bought our own blanks usually for $4/100. Boys often brought their own rifles... Anything you could get or make blanks for...Enfields, an SAA using 5 in 1 blanks... My Astra 400; Even an Arisaka or two. Nobody got killed...one guy busted a knee falling down a hill. Well remember recruiting for ROTC talking to incoming sophomores all 782'd up with that Astra in a .45 holster. Nobody cared. We were given adult responsibility. Today even adults lack adult responsibility.

Different time? I dunno, you tell me. Kids today too crazy? Have a young relative who is a Marine officer, superb physical specimen had trouble qualifying. He shot blanks in OCS-ROTC, but never had any marksmanship training at all until he went to The Basic School, AFTER he was commissioned. I still don't know how you can train effective leaders for the military without teaching the basic skill of marksmanship, and more importantly, making future officers and NCOs comfortable around guns.

[goo]

a lot of gibbs replica 03a4's are drill rifles. never heard of one blowing up.

[thorin6]

I bought four drill rifles (barreled receivers) at a flea market a couple of months ago. Two had cut receivers (one 03, one 03A3) and one had holes drilled through the receiver and chamber and rods welded in place (M1903 that was chromed). One M1903A3 had a rod welded in the barrel, but except for the weld on the bottom of the barrel to the front of the receiver (about 1/2 inch) there was no welding or cutting on the receiver. It looks like once the barrel is removed, the receiver should be just fine. Should be an interesting little project.