Looking at a RIA M1903...

[Fred]

Why Thanks Jon. I'm glad ya like it!

[Fred]

Is the make/date of the 1907 sling you have on it visible?

Ya know Tim, when the sling arrived on one of my rifles I'd bought, it was so flexible and in such nice shape, I originally thought it was a reproduction. Then I noticed the thick brass claws and the faint stamping and date of 1918. Whatever someone treated it with when it was new, it kept the sling from drying out and getting stiff. Lucky day for me when it arrived on the rifle. I believe it was my Mark I. Glad you like the rifle!!

[TDP0311]

Fred the reason I asked is because it looks completely identical to mine in every way- color, brass, you name it... I picked it up from a trusted source and know it is original, but was also surprised by how flexible mine was too. I can see where the stamp was, but its impossible to cleanly make out what it says. I wouldn't be surprised if they were treated with the same stuff.

[jonnyo55]

Well! I picked up the rifle in question today, RIA M1903 # 297804, and it came with some surprises. It is, as far as I can tell, virtually unfired, and the only wear present is that caused by handling. All parts except as noted with an "*" are black parkerized over a smooth, non-sandblasted metal finish. Here goes:

1) Bbl. is a 9/18 RIA with a mirror bore; center of ordnance bomb lacks proof punch. Proof "P" is stamped on the bottom of the barrel about an inch behind the front sight. "C121" is stamped on top of barrel between the lower band and rear sight base. Front sight and base unmarked; rear sight features dished ungrooved elevation slide knob and an unmarked flat windage knob...a surprise! Rear sight base is one piece, and displays some rough machining marks at the area just below the lightening cuts. Volley sight notch present at top of sight ladder. No proof punch is present atop the right hand bolt lug clearance raceway just below the serial number.

2) Stock is dual bolt finger groove and features "RI" in serif undotted letters 3/16" high stamped on tip. Single no serif gothic circle "P" measures 7/16" and is located behind TG with the numeral "10" between TG and proof. Checkered pre-1917 style service buttplate; rack number "722" is transversely stamped on top of butt immediately in front of buttplate tang. There is a transverse "trough" present in front of this number where a previous number was presumably removed. Handguard is concave, with semicircular windage knob clearance cut and no fixturing slot.

Here's the big surprise: Where I initially thought there was no acceptance cartouche present, close examination reveals the faint presence of the letter "L" at the bottom of one of the handling dents on the stock, which are the only signs of use the rifle displays. Unfortunately, whatever caused the dent also had the effect of boning the letter into virtual invisibility.

3) Bolt is a swept handle SA; markings are "J5" on the bottom of the safety lug, and a proof punch along with what appears to be the bottom of a serif letter "K" on the bottom of the bolt root. Cocking piece has the grooving characteristics of RIA production, and, along with the shroud, is unmarked. Sans serif safety lettering. Small gas hole, and the bolt face shows no sign of a cartridge having ever been fired.

4) Upper band displays letter "H" on bayonet lug, lower band displays sans serif "U" along with solid shank sling swivel and solid screw.

5) Trigger (*) is black casehardened, ungrooved, and pointed. Unmarked cutoff (*) is also black casehardened, with sans serif letters, and has the "ON" side buffed bright. Floorplate is unmarked and displays RIA machining characteristics.

None of the "extras" such as sling, sight hood, or cleaning kit are present. I plan to put a nice old M1907 sling marked "BT&B Co./C" on it. This sling is, itself, a bit of a mystery, as it is clearly GI, but undated...any ideas about the period this was issued? For now, I've put on an old repro that's been hanging around, marked "Hoyt 1917". I've darkened it up with the Pecard's/ hair dryer treatment, so it doesn't look quite so new.

All in all, I'm pretty happy. I'll take some pictures when it's daylight and will post here. The rifle is pretty much as expected, except for the SA bolt (Which may have been replaced in the furor to get rid of all "unsafe" SHT straight bolts) and upper band, and the buttplate and trigger, which are a touch earlier than expected.

So, John, Rick, Fred and others...a penny for your thoughts!

P.S. Here's a nice bonus...my sole example of an M1905 bayonet is also a 1918 RIA, and in equivalent condition. Merry Christmas to me!

[Fred]

John, is the L cartouche stamp about 1/4" big and is it stamped upside down?

[jonnyo55]

Yes, and yes.

[Fred]

Like this? It's my Rock Island with a RIA 7-18 barrel address, double heat treated receiver, stock has non serif P behind trigger guard, No RI or S stamp at for end tip. Single L stamped on left side of stock, K stamped in cut off recess, smooth butt plate, Stock and hand guard in unused condition,

[jonnyo55]

Same location; mine's about a half inch further to the rear. The style, however, is different, and is larger. I cleaned it a bit and the "L" seems upright on mine....VERY faint, though.

[jonnyo55]

Photos of 9/18 RIA

Here are some pics...

BTW...there are no markings in the mag cutoff recess.

[jonnyo55]

More 9/18 RIA photos

And some more...

Looking at the rifle in a strong light leads me to correct my earlier assessment of the parkerizing color as "black"...it's more of a charcoal color. It does, however, match the color of the 1918 RIA bayonet shown...they could have been made the same day! Now, if I only had an '18 RIA sling...

[CptEnglehorn]

both beautiful rifles.

[Fred]

Thank you kindly!

[jonnyo55]

I'm a little perplexed as to how some of the parts came to be on this rifle; in particular, the SA upper band along with the bolt body. Originally I liked the idea Rick put forth regarding RIA parts sets being shipped to SA and being assembled there, but the small circle P would seem to argue against that. Likewise, I had thought that perhaps it might be one of the post-WWI rebuilds done by RIA, but these would feature more than one firing proof, no?

I'd love to hear some ideas here...what's the consensus?

[Rick the Librarian]

Actually, the circled P, (assuming it is a block P and not script) would argue FOR the idea that it was assumed (or maybe overhauled) at Springfield Armory.

[jonnyo55]

I know that would be the case if the (block) circled "P" were the larger 1/2" diameter, but is a 7/16" circled block "P" also a SA firing proof, or a RIA?