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First off, I am not an intense "student" of 1903's but I do find them interesting and fun rifles. The question. I have a Remington made Model 1903 in the 3,272,xxx range. I have been watching GB auctions to get an idea of what they are selling for now as compared to what I gave for it. Some have stated that rifles in this range were a "conversion" model as they were changing over to the 1903a1 models and this is supposed to make them somewhat more desirable than other ranges. What is the factual part of this and does this really make them that much more sought after? Not trying to sell, just curious. Thanks.
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Seasons' Greetings!
Please permit me to make correction. The conversion model that others refer to is the M1903A3, not M1903A1. The M1903A3 has a receiver-mounted aperture rear sight which replaces the barrel-mounted M1903 ladder rear sight.
With that correction in mind, your rifle is not quite in the "conversion" model range. The conversion model range which adds value occurs during a three-month period starting in December, 1942, when Remington was simultaneously making both M1903 and M1903A3 rifles. Collectors seek after an M1903 rifle having a higher serial number than a companion M1903A3 rifle, which represents an inverted relationship. Approximately 30,000, total, of such rifles were made, and the survival rate of original specimens is not high.
Hope this helps. Happy Holidays!
J.B. -
Interesting side note..I physically handled a Remington '03 which was marked 1903A3...rifle looked like a "FJA" Remington '03 though...was a gorgeous rifle...wish I would have bought it from Bill Thacker when I looked at it.Comment
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I stand corrected. The ad did state the conversion was to the 1903A3, not A1 as I originally posted. Also stated that there were about 250,000 made during this "conversion" period. Believe me, I am not being argumentative because I don't know enough to argue, but for my learning, mine has a 9-42 barrel, and what would be the date of manufacture for my rifle 3,272,xxx, and how far out is this range from what they are advertising? Also, how did the discrepancy come about? 30,000 to 250,000 is a BIG jump. Thanks for info.Comment
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Not sure if I am answering your question, but the common figure for the number of Remington M1903s manufactured is in the 348,000 range. Slightly over 700,000 Remington M1903A3s were manufactured and about 234,000 Smith Corona M1903A3s were made."We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."
--C.S. LewisComment
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Perhaps the article meant to list 25,000 instead of 250,000... As you can imagine, there are discrepancies like the overlap that occurred when the goal is mass wartime production- but it wasn't an overlap of a quarter million.
Ls6man- that would be a very interesting rifle indeed!Comment
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It was a VERY cool rifle...a true transitional...I think it was in the Springfield Research magazine at one point..Comment
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Seasons' Greetings!
As Rick the Librarian pointed out, approximately 348,000 M1903 rifles were manufactured by Remington before they completed transition to the M03-A3 rifle. A popular myth about Remington rifles is that they manufactured approximately 100,000 (depending on the source) M1903 rifles fitted with milled parts before transitioning to a M1903 "Modified" rifle fitted with stamped parts. While later production Remington M1903 rifles were indeed fitted with stamped parts, they were NOT properly identifiable as "Modified." Yet the myth continues. One could, perhaps, rationalize that the so-called "Modified" rifles with stamped parts fell into a "conversion" model range. But no such rationalization is historically accurate.
Your rifle was manufactured in approximately October, 1942. The real overlap range extends from approximately S/N 3323000 to S/N 3357000, although a few scattered M1903 rifles having much higher serial numbers are known.
Hope this helps. Happy Holidays!
J.B.Comment
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Ya'll keep on and I'm gonna have to start studying up on the 1903's and learn all the history there, too. Been all in the M1 and the Carbines and have the one 1903. May have to start a new collection group. Will tell the wife that it is all you all's fault, and that way I can live to fight another day. Thanks again.
MartyComment
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John, Interesting thread.
Question; is there a known serial number or range when the initial changes were made to the receivers themselves? I have a receiver serial number 3305977 which has the initial cut for the rear sight but little else other than maybe some other subtle changes I don't have the experienced eye for. Just a curiosity and maybe unknown down to that exactness.
Happy Holidays to you
Regards
KurtAs the late Turner Kirkland was fond of saying, "If you want good oats, you have to pay the price. If you'll take oats that have already been through the horse, those come cheaper."Comment
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I have noticed them on the 3,290,000 range and up. Perhaps John can mention any before that serial range. It seems there was mention of a couple in the 3,280,000 but my memory may be faulty."We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."
--C.S. LewisComment
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Thanks Rick, kind of narrows it down a bit. I have a sporter in the 3090000 range and had another in the 3266000 range and neither had any transition steps.
KurtAs the late Turner Kirkland was fond of saying, "If you want good oats, you have to pay the price. If you'll take oats that have already been through the horse, those come cheaper."Comment
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Stamped parts were introduced roughly in the 3,220,000 range. On a sporter, the changes would be a lot harder to spot. They started almost immediately after production commenced with one of the largest "changes" being when the M1903A3 was introduced.
However, a very high numbered Remington M1903 looked quite different from a very low-numbered one. I have a restored 3,003,000 range and, trust me, the differences between it and the very high-numbered ones I have seen stand out quite a bit."We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst."
--C.S. LewisComment
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