Rear sights not corresponding to their range values

[TDP0311]

I picked up my first M1903 last November, and the snow has finally melted, allowing me to take it to the range twice last week. I was shooting the standard course of fire- at 200 yards with an SR target, and it was a tack driver. I was placing the majority of the shots in the 10 ring, but the range values associated with the rear ladder are significantly off. My 200 yard zero corresponds to just a shade under the 500 yard notch.

Is this common, or something that can be remedied? This is an old USMC service rifle 832,XXX range, and I can understand it being a bit off like that with it's ladder sight. I'm just curious if this is common. Thanks gents.

[Randy A]

Yep, very common, a shorter front sight blade will bring you down on the rear a bit. What's the story on your stock, new, old? Interested in knowing your serial number, I've got an 832,XXX also.

[TDP0311]

I misspoke on the SN, mine is 831202. The stock is old, and the rifle came from the CMP (I'm the 2nd owner) and appears to have stayed in the same condition since its pre-WWII USMC rebuild. Is yours also a USMC rifle Randy?

As for the front sight blade, I probably will begin the search for a shorter one to get the rifle to properly correspond to its elevation adjustments.

[Fred]

Why don't you just file it down until you're on target.

[joem]

Why don't you just file it down until you're on target.

Go slowly!! Sometimes a little bit goes a long way.

[Art]

If you were shoot standard commercial ammunition that was not made to mil spec the rifle will shoot higher. My 03s all shoot high with Remington "green box" or Winchester "white box" ammunition compared to M2 ball or its equivalent.

When the rifles were re built they usually didn't worry too much about the sight height on a new barrel; after all the ladder was adjustable, and frankly, if I was going to use the sight for its intended purpose a higher sight which would reduce the zero of the battle sight would be actually desirable.

[dave]

What about your sight picture? The type ammo you are using? Many things can affect where a rifle shoots compared to sights.

[TDP0311]

I'm shooting CMP bought HXP. The only thing stopping me from filing down the front sight blade is the history factor.

The front sight blade is pretty beat up, and can't be removed form the sight base, so I'm just going to put a different sight base on with a sight blade that is shorter.

[Johnny P]

Get one of the O'Hare type sight micrometers, and use it's settings once you obtain zero.

[Cosine26]

Maybe someone installed a higher 03A3 front sight blade to shorten the range of the battle sight.

[Randy A]

A3 blades won't fit in an 03, different height to the pin hole. Yes, these rifles were targeted during production and at rebuild, but I don't know what the allowable tolerances were. I doubt one would have been turned out that far off.

[Bob S]

A3 blade won't fit right out of the envelope, but it only takes a few swipes with a file on the bottom to make it fit. This was a common substitution back in the day.



Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Richard H Brown Jr]

If you haven't a hard copy of the training manual for 1903's: http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/docrepository/FM23_10.pdf save it and read it off line. Chapter 2 is general marksmanship. You *might* not be using the proper sighting procedure.

RHB

[Cosine26]

Thanks Bob. Back in the day it was a common practice. DCM/Army ran out of 03 blades but still had 03A3 blades in stock.

[Cosine26]

Upon further reflection, I do not remember that thru the DCM 03 sight blades were available. As I remember you had to order the "Movable Stud Assy", consisting of the movable stud, the blade front sight pin , and the blade, front sight.
When these were available new, you had to drill the hole for the front sight screw. When installed by the armory the front sight stud was marked with a "witness mark" indicating where the movable stud allowed for "zero" reading on the rear sight. The armory "zeroed" the rear sight and moved the movable stud either by firing or bore sighting with a fixture. When the armorer was satisfied, he drilled the hole and put on the witness mark. When "recovered" movable stud assemblies were issued, the witness mark wand and the hole was already drilled. Rarely did the two witness marks line up.
Easiest thing to do was order the 03A3 blade (cost $0.02) and file it to fit, retaining the original hole and witness mark. Hope that helps.
It was a long time ago