Early 1903 questions

[jarrodeu]

I recently purchased this rusty 1903 and was reading through John Beard's and Nick Ferris book but things don't match. It is a Springfield Armory 194,002 with a 12-10 RIA barrel. As far as I can tell the barrel looks to be the newest part on the gun. The single bolt stock was plugged and then shortened (screw moved back) and stamped with a large S (also RIA?). The sight base is the older style with the bands but the stock has the inlet for the later solid type. Sight knobs are the old small, grooved style.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Was this made by SA but then shortened by RIA or is it just a mixmaster?
Is there an SRS or other hit?
Thanks for your help,
Jarrod

[jarrodeu]

A few more pictures.

Jarrod

[Rick the Librarian]

Looks like we have a hit!

194002 011010TRP G 11TH CAV (TURNED IN)

My guess is the rifle was rebarreled, possibly as part of the change from 30-03 to 30-06, although the date may be a little late. Interesting old rifle - can I ask what you paid?

Any markings on the left side of the stock? The large S indicates the stock came from Rock Island. The rifle was "turned in" on January 10, 1910.

[curio and relic]

Rick, I'm with you thinking this is an early Rock Island rebuild (30-03 to 30-06) with new stock. If I recall
correctly, these conversions occurred thru 1910 and probably later. Does the stock have any kind of rebuild marks?

[Rick the Librarian]

The rifle will never look like a museum piece, but with some non-"invasive" cleaning, it'll look quite serviceable.

[CptEnglehorn]

nice catch, that rifle could def use a little TLC

[John Beard]

You have a very interesting rifle. By "turned in", the SRS record indicates the rifle was returned to an arsenal for overhaul and/or perhaps alteration. Since the rifle is fitted with an RIA barrel, it was probably returned to Rock Island Arsenal or to a depot that drew their supplies from Rock Island Arsenal. The barrel date is reasonably consistent with the turn-in date.

One should not assume that the present stock was on the rifle when turned in by the 11th Cavalry. The stock likely came from another rifle. And the large "S" on the fore end tip is consistent with the RIA barrel. So the stock was altered to .30-'06 caliber at Rock Island Arsenal and fitted to the rifle following alteration.

Interestingly, the open-bottom rear sight fixed base was apparently salvaged from a scrapped barrel and re-used on the R.I.A./12-10 barrel. Such re-use is not uncommon.

And finally, I note that the rifle is fitted with an RIA rear sight. This is further consistent with an RIA overhaul.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[1mark]

With the plug in the tip of the barrel would the stock have originally started out as a rod bayonet?

[Rick the Librarian]

No ... the stock is from a Rock Island M1903; the receiver is a Springfield. The serial number, I would say, dates to when M1903/05s were being produced. (M1903/05s were rifles that, on the outside looked like later M1903s, but still had the 30-03 barrel.)

[chuckindenver]

stock is an updated rod bayonet...

[Art]

What an incredibly cool rifle. I agree with Rick and CaptEnglehorn that it should be quite presentable when it's cleaned up. At the time the rifle was originally issued the 11th Cavalry was at Ft. Oglethorpe, Ga.

[Rick the Librarian]

I bought a rusted 1898 Krag for $285 a number of years ago. I spent an afternoon with a copper (NOT stainless steel!) brush and some CLP and it cleaned right up.

[Liam]

Interesting post. Confused, as it seems there are two opinions as to whether this was a rod bayonet stock. Or, am I reading this string wrong? Both Rick and Chuck are subject matter experts, so I wait with bated breath. For comparison, here's the tip of a rod bayonet stock sold at CMP auction: http://auction.odcmp.com/auctions/de...1002&pic=2#img

[jarrodeu]

Wow, thank you guys! I paid $600 but you should have seen it before I cleaned it up, there was a lot more rust and dirt. I didn't post pictures of the left inspection stamp because it was illegible. Last night though I took a closer look and it does look like a very faint scrip C as found on a Conrad Nelson stamp. Not even a hint of the date. There is also a single script P as would be expected.

So basically, the Rock Island stock was originally a rod bayonet stock that was modified twice, once for the blade bayonet and once for the 30-06?

As far as cleaning, I was worried I might take too much off so stopped there. I would rather have it look not clean enough than too clean. I used Kroil oil and 0000 fine steel wool, was this a bad thing to do? Any ideas on the stock? There is what looks like some masking tape residue on right side that I would like to take off but I'm not sure how.

Below is a picture of the in progress cleaning. Lots of rust, dirt, and mold.

Thanks again,
Jarrod

[Rick the Librarian]

The stock started out as a RB stock. Note the square "plug". I would guess it was converted into a M1903/05 stock, but I admit, am a little less sure of that.

I love taking an old, rusted rifle and making it look presentable! Nice job!