New (to me) RIA M1903 #278,759

[Rick the Librarian]

Bear, there were somewhere in the range of 269,000 to 285,000 in which some were heat treated the new method and some weren't. Several thousand in this range were destroyed.

If you have C.S. Ferris' boo on the Rock Island, I believe he has a whole chapter (or most of one) on this subject and can explain it better than I can.

[Fred]

Leading up to the final decision to start double heat treating all receivers at Rock Island Arsenal, there were a lot of receivers that were double heat treated for testing. Many were used up in the testing and all that remained were tested with a precision instrument for strength. Those that didn't pass were scrapped. What was left were about 5,000 receivers that were in fact double heat treated and that were in the otherwise "single heat treat serial number range". These receivers were mounted with barrels in 1918 and which were in turn assembled into complete rifles. John Beard can explain it all better than I can.
I have one of those Rock Island rifles that is serial number 268563. It has a R.I.A. barrel date of 7-18. According to John Beard, my "low number rifle" most certainly has a double heat treated receiver. It's my opinion that this particular rifle never made it over to Europe in time for the war. If it eventually did go to Europe, it certainly didn't see any hard field time.
Rick has Apparently TWO such rifles now..
Here are some photo's of mine, which appears to be unaltered...

[BEAR]

Thanks Rick and Fred.
I have C.S. Ferris' 1992 book but I don't recall any information on transitional rifles. Didn't he and our resident expert, John Beard write a newer book on the same subject?

[John Beard]

When the heat treating problem erupted in January, 1918, Rock Island Arsenal had 5,000 receivers finish machined and awaiting heat treatment. When the new double heat treatment process was finally worked out shortly thereafter and new heat treating furnaces were installed, those 5,000 receivers received the new double heat treatment. All those receivers were spread over the serial range from approximately S/N 269506 through S/N 285506, but no records were kept of specific serial numbers. Rock Island Arsenal resumed receiver machining in May, 1918, beginning with S/N 285507, which is accepted as the official beginning of high number production.

During the interim while receiver production was suspended, Rock Island Arsenal switched over to Parkerizing as the final finish for most rifle parts, including the barrel and receiver. The aforementioned 5,000 "low number" double heat treated receivers received the new Parkerized finish and may be identified by the presence of that peculiar Rock Island Arsenal parkerized finish and a mid-1918 or later barrel date. Rick's rifle has that peculiar finish and barrel date.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[John Beard]

Hey Fred,

Can you oblige us with a picture of the encircled "P" proof mark on your rifle?

Thanks!

J.B.

[Rick the Librarian]

FWIW, here's another "transition" RIA, my 272,505. I replaced the stock, which I now regret, but perhaps the metal will be of some interest:

[Fred]

The aforementioned 5,000 "low number" double heat treated receivers received the new Parkerized finish and may be identified by the presence of that peculiar Rock Island Arsenal parkerized finish and a mid-1918 or later barrel date. Rick's rifle has that peculiar finish and barrel date.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

Ricks fits the bill perfectly. As for my rifle, it doesn't have the Rock Island Parkerizing. What it does have is a finish that is perplexing. It has a Springfield rear sight leaf and a Springfield Firing Proof stamp, which is a Block circle P and not the Script P that Rock Island used.
If John would like to, he can go into the specific finish on the rifle.

[BEAR]

Thank you John, I now know some more 03 lore.

Fred, are you ever going to patent that "rifle post". Someone's gonna steal it and sell it to the hungry masses.

[ncblksmth1]

Great rifle.

Curious about the repair on the left side of the receiver. Would that be for a Warner Swazye scope mount?

[Fred]

Thank you John, I now know some more 03 lore.

Fred, are you ever going to patent that "rifle post". Someone's gonna steal it and sell it to the hungry masses.

Bear, all of the posts are special in that on any given morning, I often come outside to find another beautiful rifle perched upon one. The rifles appear out of nowhere and seem to come hither through a Time Portal or something. Though the fencing is now gone, I fear that should I ever pull the posts out of the ground, no more rifles will appear.

[BEAR]

Interesting ....... I wonder if the same thing happens with Rick's "magic Afghan".

[Kurt]

Fred appears to have a stake in his guns, Rick's Afghan may have been mis-identified and is in fact a magic carpet, think Steppenwolf...

[Reptile46]

It appears to be a Sedgely "put-together". They often used non-M1903 parts. I usually see low-numbered SA and RIA receivers in such rifles, but I don't remember seeing a very high numbered RIA receiver on one before.

I saw a reference on line to one in the 387XXX range with the same markings or lack of them on the barrel. I've looked at the rifle with the stock off and there are more markings that may be informative. First, the circled "S" is on the left rear of rear sight band, not on the barrel. The barrel has a proof "P" stamped on the bottom about 14" from the muzzle. About 4" further back are a "D" and a "7" separated by a tool mark that could be a "1". Just in front of the rear sight band is a "B". The underside of the rear sight band has an "X", a "K" and a "C". The top of the trigger has a "K". Overall the machining of the receiver is pretty rough. I suspect most of these are unknown inspection marks, but perhaps one or more can be linked to a manufacturer.

[the_1st_sgt]

So, other than the bbl dates and the (what looks like) bluish looking Parkerizing are there any other unique markings on the receiver that would identify it as a DHT