Detailed photo's of two 1905 bayonets

[Fred]

I took some better pictures of this 1st bayonet and scabbard that might've been issued to the United States Marines. My question is, when were the blades of these bayonets blued and when were they issued and used?

The 2nd bayonet has had some sort of very thin or worn finish applied over the originally bright blade. Any ideas on what this could be? There isn't any wear on the bayonet and it appears to have been kept in storage. The scabbard didn't come with this bayonet.

[Fred]

[Fred]

[Fred]

[Mike D]

Nice bayonets and photos, Fred! Maybe its Hun blood on that one!

Mike

[Rick the Librarian]

U.S. M1905 bayonets had "bright" metal blades for much of the pre-war period with a thin band of "bluing" down by the date and serial number (see your 1909 bayonet). About 1914-1915 at least some of them were blued overall. After about 1917, they were Parkerized. You should get a copy of Gary Cunningham's excellent book on U.S. bayonets.

[Fred]

Thanks Rick. Yea, I know about the standard bluing and Parkerizing. However why is it the 1909 blade doesn't have an Armory Blue or Parkerizing? when I got it, it's blade was covered in a film that barely darkens it and apparently never covered the bright finish very well or the tell tale dark band near the hilt. The blade appears to have dark blotches on it but no pitting or corrosion. The blade also appears to have had no sharpening or wear. Did somebody attempt to darken it with some chemical?
The blade of the 1906 dated bayonet is still in original Armory bright finish and can be used as a comparison. You can see the darkened blade of the 1909 bayonet clear enough in the group photo of the five bayonets and compare it with the bright 1906 blade. They are at opposite ends of the line up. Quite a difference.

[Emri]

Yea, I know about the standard bluing and Parkerizing. However why is it the 1909 blade doesn't have an Armory Blue or Parkerizing? when I got it, it's blade was covered in a film that barely darkens it and apparently never covered the bright finish very well or the tell tale dark band near the hilt. The blade appears to have dark blotches on it but no pitting or corrosion. The blade also appears to have had no sharpening or wear. Did somebody attempt to darken it with some chemical?

Fred,

If you let a piece of carbon steel rust lightly and clean the rust off, it will darken. That is how rifles are "rust blued" although they are done in a controlled situation. I have cleaned tools that rusted using a wire wheel and when the rust is removed they were "blue" in color. That may be the cause of your somewhat dark blade.

FWIW,

Emri

[Rick the Librarian]

The 1909 looks legit to me. A (near) bright blade with the thin line of bluing near the date/serial number.

[Fred]

When I got the 1909 bayonet. It had Gold colored (spray?) paint in the recesses of the blade where it joined the hilt and also inside the cut outs in the guard where the locking studs of the scabbard slip into the guard. There were traces of gold paint on the wooden grips too (there is still some on the wood) as well as within the screw head slot. I think somebody had spray painted the whole bayonet with gold paint. Maybe the reaction of the paint on the blade darkened it a bit. That would explain the absence of any pitting in the metal.

[Fred]

Here are close up's of the 1906 dated blade with the original untarnished Armory bright finish.

[Rick the Librarian]

Yep, that's original!! Nice bayonet!!

Here's my 1910-dated SA bayonet with early scabbard:

[Rick the Librarian]

...and, as long we're on the subjecy of USMC bayonets, here a M1910 scabbard which is supposedly a USMC, but don't have a USMC bayonet:

[Fred]

Nice Bayonet and scabbard Rick.
I wonder how a 1905 bayonet used by the Marines could be identified...? Were they non-Armory blued like the ones that Steve spoke of and described?

[Emri]

Fred,

The "blue line" Rick referred to is part of the heat treat/hardening process. A bright blade will look like this one shown and the "line" is very distinct.

If this helps,

Emri