Air Corps 1903 rifle

[witsgarand]

Did anyone see the Air Corps 1903 on gunbroker? I have never heard of such a thing. I should stop fishing so much. Based on what I've seen on line, this could be the real deal. Still time to bid. Any opinions?

[John Beard]

The seller lists the rifle as a "1903 Springfield Sporter". I concur.

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Uhhh - are we talking about 523122058? Sure looks like an Air Service (or at the very least an attempt to fake one) to me. Definitely NOT your normal 1903 sporter, or 1903 Sporting Rifle.

[Fred]

This will be interesting to watch...

<br><br>http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=523122058

[Dick Hosmer]

Serial range is correct. Patina/color/wear is certainly a believable match. Components at least look like the ASR pictures I've seen. The real clue, I think, is "missing magazine parts".

[John Beard]

Uhhh - are we talking about 523122058? Sure looks like an Air Service (or at the very least an attempt to fake one) to me. Definitely NOT your normal 1903 sporter, or 1903 Sporting Rifle.

Yes, my concurrence was addressed at 523122058. And I concur with your comment as qualified in parentheses.

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks, John. Interesting.

I searched for "Air Corps" and found nothing, then tried "1903 Sporter", which ultimately led me to that one. Seller makes no special claim, though his price expectation is clearly absurd unless he thought (hoped?) that was what it was, and was just being coy.

I'm not clear on what OP thought was "the real deal" either! One swell foop, I guess.

My expertise lies in trapdoors and Krags, I can be had on '03s. Don't know seller, wouldn't have wanted the rifle anyhow, but, like Fred, I at least thought it worth asking about.

[John Beard]

I cannot rule out the possibility that the rifle might be an authentic Air Service rifle. Certainly the serial number falls in the right range. And it appears to be fitted with an authentic Air Service band and rear sight. But the overall evidence is not convincing.

J.B.

[Fred]

It's pretty clean looking. Not any patina on the stock. No dust in any crevices. No dried grease on the bolt or anywhere. It looks almost too clean to have been a rifle that's been regarded and treated as just a Sporter by somebody for 98 years.

[witsgarand]

If this an original air service 1903, wouldn't it be the rarest of 1903 variants? What cartouches should it have????? What would be a realistic value.

[Fred]

Take a look at the latest edition of Flaydermans. I wouldn't regard it as the rarest variant however.

[Dick Hosmer]

If this an original air service 1903, wouldn't it be the rarest of 1903 variants? What cartouches should it have????? What would be a realistic value.

No, it would certainly not be the rarest 1903. With a production of 910 rifles, and little if any record of documented use, there have to be some around, even though they were apparently ordered to be converted into normal 1903s after the war, which should have taken no more than five minutes each by a trained armorer, in shop with the proper tools and parts at hand.

This item has begun to intrigue me, and I plan on having a lot more input. I will NOT be bidding on it - I do not collect 1903s, and, since this is no longer a "sleeper", and I'm now on a very tight fixed income, there will be no attempt by me to obtain it for trade purposes. Further input will be limited as to why I think it is real, or not real - and I have not yet made up my mind. My 1865-1915 SA collection includes a significant number of arms made in quantities of 1000 or less, so, while definitely NOT an '03 "expert", at all, am not unfamiliar with limited production Springfields.

Full disclosure right up front: I've never handled, or even seen, an Air Service Rifle, real or faked. My written information - right or wrong - comes solely from the works of Brophy and Canfield. I do not have Campbell's or Hatcher's books, so, I may well make some newbie mistakes as this progresses. If I do, please point them out to me. All future comments are "IMHO". Game on.

At the very minimum, I would ask that the seller provide pictures of the following areas:

(1) More angles of the front of the stock and handguard (but he has already shown the toe of the stock without sling swivel mortise - which is HUGE, and probably makes the stock correct all by itself.
(2) More angles of the rear sight.
(3) Barrel stamping
(4) Several views of magazine opening
(5) Stock cartouche(s)

[Fred]

Yea, what Dick said!

[Fred]

There was a run of Nine Sporter 1903's that were the last made at Springfield Armory and that went to the Justice Department (FBI) in 1928 or 1929. I know of a fellow who has Two of them that have been offered to me for $2,000.00 each. I think that any of That run must be pretty rare.

[Promo]

Why would someone list a M1903 Sporter which appears to be an AS rifle, but puts a reserve of $9,000 on it because some people told him how rare this rifle is, and still doesn't update the description? Well, because the description then is something binding, and by now he still can claim he only sold a Sporter.
Compare the pictures with original Air Service rifles. The front end has a much different angle. And someone very knowledgeable told me to look at the finish, what I did. The originals sold by James D. Julia, aswell as those in Springfield Armory collection have a blued finish - and both also have inspector markings. This rifle does not.

For the records: what I was able to read on the internet, a June 19, 1925 memorandum said that 139 rifles were converted to service rifle configuration. Subtracting this from the 910, there should be 771 rifles of those still around.