Just took some more close up photos of...

[Fred]

[Fred]

[Fred]

[Rick the Librarian]

Normally, I don't recommend taking pictures of firearms in sunlight, but you seem to have a good "system". I'm gueesing early morning or late afternoon?

[Fred]

I think that it was mid day Rick. Of course we live so far North, and it being Winter, the sun is low in the Southern sky. The sun is shining directly from the South in the photos.

[PhillipM]

My rifle is SA S/N 750598 with S.A./11-17 barrel. But our two rifles are different. My rifle is casehardened. Your rifle is double-heat-treated. I bought my rifle many years ago at B'ham. March sounds good. Them ribs is smokin'!

J.B.

The ribs sound great! I remember discussing the finish on Emri's rifle and what it signified. Small price to pay for watching Emri's table.

[Rick the Librarian]

Bet I live farther north than you do!! LOL!

[Fred]

Man, I'm starting to think twice about putting my rifle up for sale now. I didn't realize that there were so few of the 1917 made 03's left. Certainly there aren't many original and still correct specimens out there to find. But I can't have them all. I still want to get that Krag back from my buddy George.

[John Beard]

I can understand your desire to get your Krag back. I, too, have a very nice Italian Walnut-stocked Krag, but it's an 1898 model.

Many years ago, I had a high number nickel steel SA rifle that I sold at a gun show. Shortly thereafter, I regretted selling it. Fortunately, the buyer lost interest, contacted me the following year, and asked if I was interested in buying it back at the same price. It has lived at my house ever since.

Since I am not a trader, I learned a lesson from that experience. I now don't buy anything unless I am absolutely convinced that I want it. Then I buy it, admire it, smile, and put it away.

Perhaps you need to stretch a little and see if you can put your arms around both rifles. After all, Christmas is coming and, if you're just trading one rifle for another, you haven't put anything under the tree!!!

Good Luck!

J.B.

[Emri]

Man, I'm starting to think twice about putting my rifle up for sale now. I didn't realize that there were so few of the 1917 made 03's left. Certainly there aren't many original and still correct specimens out there to find. But I can't have them all. I still want to get that Krag back from my buddy George.

Get your Krag back from your buddy, that sounds like something to do ASAP. I wish I had more firearms that came down through the family.

Leave "your wife's house" for a few days and take a road trip to Birmingham, Alabama next March. John and I like to get together there then; Phillip comes there frequently; we have a good time discussing M1903's and chowing down on some fine BBQ after the gunshow.

If I remember correctly, your rifle is one of the "double heat treated" ones ?? Or is that another rifle you have ?? The DHT ones would have to be more scarce than the case hardened ones, but what John said about the edict to "destroy" receivers made in 1917 would seem to make either one even more scarce.

I don't have a lot of time to make pics, but when I do, I'll make some of mine to compare to your's.


Have a Nice Thanksgiving !!!,


Emri

[Fred]

Now That sounds like something I'd like Emri! In my absence, my wife would be the only one taking care of 49 critters on our ranch though. Maybe 50, I'd have to count again. She's not able to move around very fast with her bad knees and back and hips or respond to emergencies as well as when there're two of us here. Her sternum has never fully healed after one of the horses she was riding came down on her chest with its two front hooves. Her sternum was broken and her ribcage hinged inward, but she still managed to get to her feet and get back onto the horse and ride it home several miles without passing out. This was before cell phones.
My 1917 dated 03 is case hardened like a Krag. My Rock Island Arsenal 03 is the one that you're thinking of. That is one of the approximate 5,000 Rock Island rifles that had survived or that were left over after the Double Heat Treat tests during the development of that process that they finaly adopted in 1918. All of the double heat treated R.I.A. receivers on those rifles were serial numbered Under the official starting point of the Double heat treating process. This is on record. Rarely, one will come across one such rifle with its low serial number that has not been rebuilt or rebarreled. My Rock Island rifle is in superb condition and would be just about impossible to replace with another such rifle if and when I sell it.

Anyway, selling my 1917 made 03 would enrich somebody's collection and its not like the rifle will disappear into a closet or fall into the hands of anyone who'd abuse it. If I do put it up for auction, I'll include the Excellent conditioned 1917 dated sling and the 1918 dated 1905 bayonet and scabbard. It'd make a nice addition in someone's collection.

[Fred]

[Fred]

Thanks for sharing!

I have a rifle within three thousand of yours that is convincingly a Doughboy bring-back. It came with the original sling, bayonet, scabbard, and breech cover. And it's in about the same condition. Seeing yours makes me appreciate both of ours!

Thanks again for taking the time to make and post pictures!

J.B.

p.s.,

And to dirtdigger, the date was April, 1917.

John,
Looking at the condition of my 1917 dated rifle, I'm wondering if it too is quite possibly a Doughboy bring back. None of the features on it show much wear other than careful handling and the parts are all original and nothing has been updated or re inspected or replaced other than the bolt, which was an unaltered, unrefinished and complete Rod Bayonet bolt made by Rock Island Arsenal. I replaced it with a correct C7 stamped bolt.
It being a Doughboy bring back could explain why the rifle was saved from being scrapped upon its return from the European theater, as per the Order issued to Springfield Armory by the Chief of Ordnance.
"The scarcity of 1917 M1903 rifles is probably driven by an order issued to SA from the Chief of Ordnance in 1919 to destroy the receivers of all rifles coming back from France that were manufactured in 1917. They didn't miss many.

J.B.

p.s.,

The order did not cover USMC rifles."

John Beard

Have you any thoughts about that theory John?

[John Beard]

"The scarcity of 1917 M1903 rifles is probably driven by an order issued to SA from the Chief of Ordnance in 1919 to destroy the receivers of all rifles coming back from France that were manufactured in 1917. They didn't miss many.

J.B.

p.s.,

The order did not cover USMC rifles."

John Beard

Have you any thoughts about that theory John?

At the time I first gained an interest in M1903 rifles many years ago, I did not notice any shortage of rifles from 1917. But in more recent years, I have noticed that rifles in the S/N 700,000 range appear to be less common than normal. I'm not suggesting that rifles in the S/N 700,000 range are scarce or rare, but I just encounter them less frequently than rifles in other serial ranges, especially in high number ranges.

A sizable chunk of rifles in the S/N 600,000 range were issued to the USMC. And although many later rifles in that serial range were made in 1917, those rifles survived because the USMC did not scrap their low number rifles.

J.B.

[Fred]

Thanks John.