1903 Stock Mil Spec Finish Receipe

[IditarodJoe]

According to Brophy it was boiled linseed oil and it was used long before WWII, I'd have to look but I thought during WWI. The logwood stain was used on the early 1903s and was the origin of the beautiful red coloration. Several folks on this and other forums have tried to duplicate it but those ingredients are no longer available.

Randy, please do look it up. As noted in post #10 of this thread, Ordnance Form No. 528 dated July 1, 1916 specified the use of RAW linseed oil. This requirement was apparently left unchanged in U.S. Army Ordnance Department Specifications No. 52.1.1 dated February 9, 1923. I would be very interested in any definitive documentation that you might be aware of citing a change from raw to boiled linseed oil.

Logwood, in the form of chips, powder, and extract, is still readily available. It's unlikely that any of the ingredients used by the government could not be easily obtained today. Sadly, what is missing is the formulation for the armory stain and the specific process by which it was applied.

[louis]

I posted the instructions you guys don't read. Aqua fortis is added to bring out the grain affect look it up on the Internet the camwood is for a brighter red color. Neither is needed for the logwood stain. Both are still available to purchase. By the way this formula was written about 1900 or earlier

[dave]

I do not believe the military used any 'stain', why would they bother? Were they trying to make "pretty" rifles? Stain does nothing to protect the wood. Linseed oil will obtain that reddish, dark color with age. And you can see many color variations in stocks. European military rifles will have the same reddish color, I have many examples of these.

[Emri]

I do not believe the military used any 'stain'

You have an incorrect belief.

[Merc]

I think dark logwood staining would have accomplished several things that the military desired. It would have penetrated the wood fibers and acted as a preservative and water repellant and the dark pigment would have given the wood a uniform dark color to help prevent being conspicuous on the battlefield. Linseed oil would have enhanced the finish but also acted as another layer of preservative and water repellant.

Merc

[louis]

Agreed Merc

[LAH]

here is the look I'm goin for

DJC69-Z-F2-L.jpg

[Merc]

here is the look I'm goin for

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35095[/ATTACH]

Work of art. Do you think they started out making a good looking rifle that shoots well or vice versa?

Merc

[13Echo]

I have never seen any reference in any official document that mentions stain for military stocks. Walnut is already a dark wood and the oil bath makes it darker. why bother staining? Birch stocks show no evidence of stain and the european walnut used on some Krags show no evidence of stain. The CMP site says the red color comes from years of oxidizing linseed oil mixed with sweat, gun oil, and dirt. I can't find logwood mentioned in any of my older gunsmithing manuals (McFarland, Vickery, Howe, Dunlap). The red stain in common use for civilian stocks was alkanet root rather than logwood. If there is any documentation of stains used for Springfield Armory stocks I would love to see it.

Logwood stain is still very much commercially available in the form of Hematoxylin used as a stain for microscope slides along with eosin. The stain color is purple to purple red to almost black.

[Johnny P]

Since we don't have access to a vat of hot linseed oil, the next best thing I have found is boiled linseed oil and turpentine mixed 50/50. Much easier to spread out, dries quickly, and builds up slow enough that you can easily control the final appearance. Smells like turpentine until it dries, the left with only the linseed oil smell.

Just put a finger tip of the mix on the wood, smooth out until it will spread no farther, then repeat.

[IditarodJoe]

Hmmm . . . alright, now I'm curious. Fact or popular myth? Is anyone aware of any solid reference that supports the idea that stain was ever in the production of ANY US armory rifle stock? While we're at it, I'd also be interested in any reliable documentation showing that the government ever used anything other than room temperature raw linseed oil to treat newly manufactured rifle stocks - at least prior to WWII. Thinking on it, I have to confess that I don't recall ever seeing either one.

[Randy A]

I do not believe the military used any 'stain', why would they bother? Were they trying to make "pretty" rifles? Stain does nothing to protect the wood. Linseed oil will obtain that reddish, dark color with age. And you can see many color variations in stocks. European military rifles will have the same reddish color, I have many examples of these.

Any GI replacement stock I've ever got had been stained, when you work them down you'll see, walnut's not as dark as you think. As far as them using stain p57 Brophy "The 1928 SA fiscal year report stated that the use of Logwood stain was being eliminated to reduce the cost of finishing and refinishing."
As far as linseed oil they did used raw linseed oil early on, but I'm certain I read a report that they were using BLO around WWI, I'm still looking.

Did find the Rock Island published, Ordnance Base Shop Manual calls for cleaned and worked stocks to be dipped in 50/50 Linseed oil and turpentine.

[IditarodJoe]

Thank you Randy! I didn't recall reading that. That would appear to be concrete evidence for the use of logwood stain as well as a firm date for its discontinuance. I'll be keeping an eye out for other references and will post any I find here.

[dave]

You have an incorrect belief.

Well prove it, lets see some documentation!
So far on this thread I have seen nothing but speculation and 'I think'. Only one official document has been quoted and it does not mention stain! And I do not mean some book someone wrote unless it quotes an official document. Books on guns are notorious for error! Who the hell are you to say I am any more in error then anyone else?? So keep your stupid thoughts to your self!

[Randy A]

I don't know where the confusion is coming from? Ordnance Form number 528 dated 1 July 1916 specifically states that stocks are to be dipped in a "linseed oil bath for 5 minutes", then removed, placed vertical and dried. Use of linseed oil and logwood stain "are" documented, I thought most folks knew this. As earlier stated the Springfield Armory 1928 fiscal year report specifically addresses Logwood stain. The Rock Island Shop manual in print at the stock work steps says 1/2 linseed oil and 1/2 turpentine. How many more pieces of documentation is needed?

The only part where I'm either confused or mistaken is where I read they used "boiled" linseed oil at one point, I'll find it yet. Anyhow, what I've found is that even most Dark Wallnut stains do not stain it as dark as most of the original GI stocks, going over that with BLO actually lightens it up a bit more. Here is a WWII American Bowling and Billiard scant stock (I bought several in the original boxes many years ago). I worked it down to pre-war Springfield scant dimensions and cut an A4 bolt relief in it.
I used Minwax, Dark Wallnut stain, several times (couldn't get it dark enough for my taste) and finished it with BLO. I purposefully left the stain in abundance in the cuts to give the original looking color to the areas. As you can see, it's not really that dark, the rough areas in the action inletting are about what color I would like.



Here is the finished product out in the sunlight....sort of, kinda overcast.