M1917 extractors

[Merc]

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Here's some M1917 parts that have some obvious differences that could have caused interchangeability issues.

The M1917 extractor on the left is a CV extractor. It is without a gas hole, is in unused condition and works very smoothly to extract a spent case in all modes.

The one in the center is a Winchester extractor with a gas hole drilled near the claw. The claw is slightly worn on the left side. It still works well to extract the spent case from the receiver if the cartridge is loaded from the magazine but the bolt requires a greater amount of force to close on a cartridge that's loaded directly into the receiver. The difference in the radius that's cut into the leading edge is probably the cause.

The extractor on the right fits a M1917 bolt but the claw is different and it won't close on a 30-06 cartridge. Does anyone recognize it? Maybe a P14?

[Dan Shapiro]

Does anyone recognize it? Maybe a P14?

Yep. For the Brit 303 "rimless" cartridge.

https://enfieldteile.de/Extractor-6

[Merc]

Does anyone recognize it? Maybe a P14?

Yep. For the Brit 303 "rimless" cartridge.

https://enfieldteile.de/Extractor-6

Thanks, i thought so. Are P-14 bolts interchangeable with M1917 bolts?

[Dan Shapiro]

Are P-14 bolts interchangeable with M1917 bolts?

Yes...........and no. Yes, it will fit into the receiver, BUT the angles on the bolt faces are different where they meet the face of the barrel. The cutout for the extractor (on the face of the barrel) is also different.

[fjruple]

I would say NO unless you are a gunsmith who has worked on these conversions. The compatibility of the M1917 bolts are OK. There was no compatibility between the three manufacturers of the P14 rifles on the bolts. Additionally the P14s were made in two different MKs, MKI and MKI* which involved two different bolts and barrels, so you are contending with 6 different P14 bolts that may not fit.

--fjruple

[Merc]

Great info, thanks.

[Merc]

I would say NO unless you are a gunsmith who has worked on these conversions. The compatibility of the M1917 bolts are OK. There was no compatibility between the three manufacturers of the P14 rifles on the bolts. Additionally the P14s were made in two different MKs, MKI and MKI* which involved two different bolts and barrels, so you are contending with 6 different P14 bolts that may not fit.

--fjruple

Yikes. That means it would take some deep knowledge of the bolt variations in order to recognize and buy a replacement bolt for a P-14 and a Model 1917.

[fjruple]

Merc-- The M1917 bolt should be no problem as the US Army Ordnance insisted on compatibility. The P14 is a totally different animal. The Winchester P14 is notorious for being not compatible with anything. In any rebuilds stick with P14 parts and manufacturer's code. Each part of the P14 is marked with a "W" , "R" and "E". In the past two years I have rebuilt 4 P14 rifle projects where an individual attempted to just swap out P14 parts with M1917 parts and guess what it does not work.

--fjruple

[Merc]

How do you identify a P14 bolt vs a Model 1917 bolt?

[fjruple]

Merc--

The quickiest way is to check and see if the serial number was stamped on the bolt handle. The Winchesters were stamped on the top of the handle and Remington and Eddystone were stamped on the bottom. That's not say that the serial number has been removed by grinding which I have seen. As I stated before the P14 was manufactured with two different types of bolts, the MKI and MKI*. The main difference is a larger locking lug on the MKI*. The MKI* will not fit into the MKI rifles but the MKI will fit into the MKI* rifles. The MKI* can be identified with a * stamped onto the bolt handle.

Below is an illustration of the differences between the M1917 bolt and P14 bolt

Differences in Bolts.jpg

[fguffey]

My P14 bolts fit the 303 rimmed cartridge and I can use the P14 bolt for belted magnum case heads like the 300 Win Mag. When I use a M1917 bolt for a magnum belted case head I have to open the bolt face and then there is the large Mauser type claw on the 1917. And then there is the smoke hole, the hole came later.

F. Guffey

[Merc]

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Here are pics of the two bolts, the Parkerized bolt has a W and a flaming bomb stamped on the handle and the other bolt has an E and a flaming bomb stamped on the handle. The only physical difference I can see is the bolt face on the W bolt is made from two different assemblies.

[fjruple]

Merc--

M1917 bolt bodies regardless of the manufacturer were one piece affairs. There was a compatibility problem with the initial manufacture of Winchester M1917 rifles as Winchester jumped the guns and started to manufacture the M1917 rifle before the US Army Ordnance approved a standard for compatibility. This would later cause a problem later to the point that General Pershing stipulated that no Winchester M1917 rifles were to be shipped to the AEF in France. An acceptable level of compatibility for the M1917 was only achieved in January 1918. Does your Winchester M1917 bolt handle have a circle enclosing a star stamped on it?

--fjruple

PS-- There are minor machining variations between manufacturers.

[Merc]

No, just a W on the lower side of the handle and a flaming bomb on the upper side.

[fjruple]

Merc--

Do you have the Winchester rifle the M1917 came off of? Is there a circle around a star on the receiver?

--fjruple

PS-- The bolt face on my Winchester M1917 is not machined like yours.