M1917 Stock

[RC20]

F Guffey:

First you do not supply any context here? So what are you talking about?

ID or OD of the barrel?

If OD I would like to see measurements.

There is a difference between the myth thing that they just used 303 bore (they did not) vs what the outside diameter of the rifle barrel was.

I see no one saying the 303 bore was used in the 1917.

As the 276 cartridge was a modern high pressure round, the 303 was an easy conversion by a boring change from the Pattern 13 .276 caliber and the same was true of the 30-06 x 1917. Just a boring change.

While its possible barrel diameter was changed, I have yet to see solid data that says it was.

[fguffey]

[QUOTE=RC20;519379]F Guffey:

First you do not supply any context here? So what are you talking about?

ID or OD of the barrel?

I have a P14 chambered to a 30/06 and I have a P14 chambered to 308 Norma Mag and I am building two M1917s or P14s chambered to 8MM338 Winchester Mags.
It seems you are talking about something you have never seen.

http://www.constitution.org/col/blind_men.htm

F. Guffey

[RC20]

And the price of tea in Tibet?

You can put any barrel with the right threads on a P14.

Does not tell us what the OD of the original P17 barrel is. So tell is, what is the OD, rear, front. Mid point.

Instead of trying to be cute, simply tell us what the setup is.

What I do see is you like to talk in such a twisted manner a cray super computer could not figure out what you mean.

[fjruple]

I thought I would post this photo of an attempt to put an early Winchester P14 barrel on an early Eddystone P14 by a home gunsmith. You can see that even within the manufacturers P14 barrels were different in in OD size. I did use that barrel on another early Winchester P14 that I had and it fit the stock and action body perfectly.

Pattern 14 5a.jpg

[blackhawk2]

You sure it is not the wood?......regards...alex

[p246]

I posted pictures of my rearsenaled P14 and M1917 in the past. In just the two examples I have they interchange and fit fine. It’s my understanding that the Brits did not have replacement stocks for P14s that were rearsenaled in preperation for WW2. M1917 replacement stocks were procured for that purpose. If any alterations were made that’s unknown to me. The original whale belly P14 stock was an odd duck.

[tmark]

I read that whale belly stocks, if I picture what you mean, were only made by Eddystone. The r and w stock looked like regular m17 stocks.

[fjruple]

You sure it is not the wood?......regards...alex

Positive it's not the wood -- I put a brand new Criteron P14 barrel on and it fitted perfectly on to the Eddystone.

[fjruple]

I posted pictures of my rearsenaled P14 and M1917 in the past. In just the two examples I have they interchange and fit fine. It’s my understanding that the Brits did not have replacement stocks for P14s that were rearsenaled in preperation for WW2. M1917 replacement stocks were procured for that purpose. If any alterations were made that’s unknown to me. The original whale belly P14 stock was an odd duck.

P245-- The Brits made replacement stocks without the volley sights for replacement. That not to say that if a shortage of P14 stocks occurred that unserviceable M1917 were cannibalized for their stocks. You are not far off the mark about the Brits using M1917 parts for their P14s. The Brits did obtain a number of M1917 firing pins and re-manufactured them to fit their P14s.

[p246]

If the wood was originally for an M1917 and put on a P14 the magazine well area will be poorly fit as the mag well is slightly bigger on a M1917 than a P14. My P14 is wearing a 1917 stock, who knows when it was done. The cleaning rod holes are supposed to be different also, but I can’t remember the difference. The Weedon contract stocks were locally sourced in Britain. I,m looking for an old article that I have somewhere that suggest post Weedon Britain source some left over M1917 stocks.

- - - Updated - - -

I read that whale belly stocks, if I picture what you mean, were only made by Eddystone. The r and w stock looked like regular m17 stocks.

The Whale belly on the early P14s were made on all three. I had a Winchester P14 drill rifle with its original whale belly stock. The lower forearm was very wide with a distinct line cut going up at about 40 degrees from in front of magazine well forward. The rifle still had its volley sights. Sold it for a very good profit. Should have kept pictures. It’s my understanding one big complaint of the early P14 was weight. The whale belly went away to shave weight, and the volley sights were antiquated when they entered service.

[RC20]

The belly was for ammo capacity.

If it was shaved off then the rounds went to under 5 in a 303.

Keep in mind it was intended for 270 caliber P13 and more rounds with rebated rim.

Oddly you could load 1 more 30-06 into it (6)

The SMLE has a larger external mag that held 10 (rapid firing)

The Belly just hit the blind magazine or it would have stuck out as well.

SMLE was a two piece stock, the others one.

[fjruple]

From what I gather the "whale belly" stocks were only used on the early Eddystone P14s. These whale belly stocks are easily identified as having no finger grooves in the foreend part of the stock and also a clearance cut for the volley sights when elevated. (Side note: The replacement P14 stocks manufactured in the GB near WWII also did not have finger grooves and also no volley sight cuts. They were not made from American Black Walnut.) Winchester and Remingtons did not have these type of stocks when manufactured in the US. Eddystone later which to the same type of stocks as the Winchester and Remington. Since your Winchester P14 drill rifle had an early Eddystone stock, it was probably fitted later in its service life as there was no replacements to be had. Normally the Early Eddystone stock would not be a drop in fit on the Winchester P14 as the Magazine Case is quite different than the Eddystone and Remington built rifles. But was probably hand fitted. It a shame you did not keep the pictures.

[p246]

From what I gather the "whale belly" stocks were only used on the early Eddystone P14s. These whale belly stocks are easily identified as having no finger grooves in the foreend part of the stock and also a clearance cut for the volley sights when elevated. (Side note: The replacement P14 stocks manufactured in the GB near WWII also did not have finger grooves and also no volley sight cuts. They were not made from American Black Walnut.) Winchester and Remingtons did not have these type of stocks when manufactured in the US. Eddystone later which to the same type of stocks as the Winchester and Remington. Since your Winchester P14 drill rifle had an early Eddystone stock, it was probably fitted later in its service life as there was no replacements to be had. Normally the Early Eddystone stock would not be a drop in fit on the Winchester P14 as the Magazine Case is quite different than the Eddystone and Remington built rifles. But was probably hand fitted. It a shame you did not keep the pictures.

Yep I,m kicking my own ass especially since this thread popped up. Anything is possible with a drill rifle and I made no notes on markings. I remember the stock was not as dark as my M1917, but it was not birch. maybe English walnut?

[fguffey]

And the price of tea in Tibet?

You can put any barrel with the right threads on a P14.

I can, again, I have my doubts you have ever seen one. I walked into a shop and was told by the smith/builder he has sworn off of P14s, I had to ask why because he had built 100s of rifle using the M1917 and P14 receivers. I explained the difference and I explained where to cut/mill and I told him how much to mill. When finished his life was much simpler. Stock: He was using custom order stocks and bench rest type barrels, for many years he has purchased piles of parts from a gun store, I told the gun parts store owner we had plans for P14 barrels, he offered a few saying he had 250+ barrels.

The P14 barrel is a SA barrel, if you have one measure it; if you have a M1917 rifle measure the diameter of the barrel and then compare the difference in diameter between the two. All you gotta do? The 303 barrel face started out as flat and then they added gas escape cuts. The M1917 has an extractor cut. And then there is case head protrusion and unsupported case head.

And for most measuring a taper is all but impossible to measure by reloaders, most reloaders get silly when 'the datum' is mentioned so I will not mention 'the datum'.

F. Guffey

[BEAR]

Whale belly ... maybe

I found this picture in a weapons book of a P14. While not the greatest picture , it does show a bulge in the stock behind the grasping grooves. Somewhat reminiscent of a bulge in the magazine area of a Johnson rifle.
Could this be a whale belly stock?Whalebelly P14.jpg