Restore, conserve, or build a shooter?

[lyman]

check out endoscopes on amazon,

I have a simple one, that works on my cell phone,

install the app,
stick the flexible camera down the bore, and I get a good view of what is down there,

not a good as a hawkeye type, but works fine for what I need

[Darreld Walton]

I did take the barreled action out to the pasture, tied it off to a tire, aimed it at a berm, and fired it with a length of lanyard. Three shots. Cases look perfect, extracted easily, the ammo was LC69 M2 ball. Just the slightest resistance when I turned the bolt down on a chambered round. I didn't think to put a target up, maybe tomorrow. Prior to doing this, I hit it again with a new .303 brush, after I'd plugged and soaked the bore and soaked it overnight. Finally got 'blue' in the Hoppe's and on the patches till they turned 'grey' instead of black. After firing, I scrubbed it again and must have angered something, as what emerged after a wet patch and brush was a black, 'oozy' mess for two patches, then a bit of blue again, and patches till only a light grey showed up.
Contacted Chuck via his facebook link, fairly late, and he asked me to call tomorrow about a new barrel. He didn't mention what the barrel was, I'm assuming a Criterion. I've about decided the replacement barrel is going to be the way to go. I'll hang onto the original, keep it with the rest of the rifle, and if I turn it later, the original barrel can go with it. With ten kids, thirty two grandkids, the likelihood that it'll stay in the family is fairly high, rather than going to 'market'.

[RC20]

I would not give up on the barrel yet. The Lyman Borscope works well. Rough of not it may be fine.



Ask Chuck if he has to cut the barrel to get it off the gun?



Read the following please.

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/precision-shooting-magazine/

The is how I go about it. Firing and getting more crud out is common.

As for cleaning, Carbon Killer 2000 does a great job and a warm barrel cleans faster.

Savage barrels are rough, they don't lap them, so they get dirty fast.

I have found a nylon brush works best as it soaks up the cleaner, I either use an eye dropper to get CK2 on it in the magazine area and or run it through and soak it good out the end and then back and forth 3 or 4 times. Do that two or three times, dry patch, repeat until clean.

Dry patch at the end.

There are similar cleaners to C2K, non haz, non toxic, no odor and very focused on carbon (or copper) - beats the old cleaner all hollow as shown by a boro scope look.

If you get copper then the Bore Tehc Eliminator is very good, it does carbon to, not as good as C2K but good and works for stripping layers of carbon and copper.

It to is a non haz, non toxic and pretty odorless. I think others out there as well but that's the one I have used and settled on.

[Col. Colt]

You need to try Sharp Shooter Products "Wipe Out" and/or "Patch Out" - with or without their "Accelerator" added. I had a black bore M1917, too. I tried regular Hoppe's , old fashioned cleaning - just got black mud. I used Wipe Out - let it set overnight - got a ton of Black goop. Then foamed the bore, got a bunch of copper blue on patch. Then foamed it again - got black goo again - then foamed again - copper...
There were FIVE distinct Layers of fouling black over copper - that responded to Wipe Out - and NOT to regular cleaners. I think Sportsman's Warehouse stocks it. Check Cabelas and Brownells, or order direct from the maker in Kansas.
CC

PS - Brownell's sells a famous paste bore cleaner that is noted for this kind of problem - can't remember the name - look under bore cleaners. CC

[RC20]

You need to try Sharp Shooter Products "Wipe Out" and/or "Patch Out"

I disagree he has to and I believe I have presented some very solid evidence that the CK2k and the Boretech products work better than any of the store available items.

Bore tech works as its a good carbon cleaner as well, you it a layer of hard carbon and then the CK2k. Repeat as needed.

[Col. Colt]

If you have not tried the different Sharp Shooter Products against your favorites, how can you objectively know which is better?

I do know that the original market for Wipe Out was Bench Rest shooters who did not want ANY abrasive product or sharp implement on their expensive bores. I had very good results in getting out layers of carbon and copper - your mileage may vary. CC

[RC20]

If you read the guys writing, you will see he tried it all.

Also like him, I have a boroscope. What seemed clean was not.

YRMV

[steved66]

Cleaning: do a Google search on how to do clean a bore via electrolysis. Pretty simple to do an all you need is a steel rod, two pieces of copper wires and an old phone charger (cut end off, separate the wires)

Pitted bore: I strongly suggest to try shooting cast bullets (.310, .311) using low velocity loads (ie. 16 gr Alliant 2400). I have an M1917 with a badly pitted bore. Can't hit a 2' x 3' target frame at 50yds with M2 ball. Prints a decent group at 50yds with the aforementioned load. I also tried a load that was noted years back on Box o Truth website: regular rifle powder (ex. IMR 4895) pushing a 303 British bullet - .311 180gr Spitzer. That load cloverleafs for me at 50yds. Transformed a wall hanger into a gong ringer. Won't ever win a match but I kept my rifle original

Here's the link to the Box O Truth post about using the 303 British bullets in the M1917:

https://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-79-tightening-up-the-groups-on-an-old-rifle/

[musketshooter]

It is a waste of time and effort to try and restore a sewer pipe bore.
The are a lot of new old stock barrels still out there.

[Darreld Walton]

Last shot at cleaning netted shredded woven cotton patches, leaving remnants stuck to the sharp edges of the craters in the lands. Revealed pitting that completely 'cut' the lands, and extend below the original surface of the grooves. M2 ball round in the muzzle is 'normal', about what I get when put the same bullet in a new SA 1903 barrel. Took one of the cases of a cartridge that I fired in this rifle, gently squeezed the neck until it would just hold a pulled 150 fmj, put the rim under the extractor, and pushed it into the chamber. Bullet was pushed back to just shy of the cannelure. Chamber is bright, and free of any damage. What I've got is the result of neglect and abuse.
Located a new, in the wrap, 1919 dated Winchester replacement barrel, and negotiated price, including removal/installation, and Parker type finish on all the metal. Cost would be a very close match to what the CMP Custom Shop would get for the same work, installing a Criterion. Will keep the original, take-off barrel with the rifle, just 'because'. I swapped out the non-Winchester parts, with the correct pieces that were installed on a couple of mixmaster 1917 Sporters, so the rifle is at least now "correct", as it sits.

[pickax]

Sounds like a good outcome, enjoy it.