Fat (.310 - .311) Bullets in the 1917

[RC20]

I got 30 loaded up with 4350.

My Eddystone is not nearly as accurate as my Remington, it did ok with them, maybe a wash.

My Winchester Danish return which is the least accurate with 308s, did a lot better.

I got 4 inside of 1 3/8 at 75 yds (with a flyer which I have to measure)

I did not have a good sight picture as the sun was low and behind, not awful but not good with old eyes and the iron sights.

I think its worth experimenting with these, the Hornady being a shade small maybe better for it than the Sierra but maybe a wash as well.

they do come out pretty short to not stick in the lands. 3.200, I can't use (though may try) my depth gauge as the bullet is too large to fit the test shell.

[RC20]

I went online & checked some ammo sites for the .310-.311 bullets & they are listed as British .303`s. Is this correct?

A warning! There are WWII era barrels that were made by HS, JA and RIA that used the 1903 30-06 contour (i.e. 2 or 4 grove barrels with .004 groves) and those SHOULD NOT be shot with a 303 caliber (310 or 311 or any other diameters used for 303) as they would be a serious squeeze. Not sure what issues but no gain and possible barrel damage.

I have found my Sierra 174s have a COAL to the rifling of 3.210 to 3.220. Probably the longest COAL for a reloaded cartridge would be 3.200, I am going to try a bit shorter to the 3.190 range based on my finding for my best shooting rifle with the 308s that it liked .035 or so off the lands.

Again I am not saying it’s the only dimension but its worked well and not sure I can shoot well enough (see target) to refine.

Part of the problem is I am trying to shoot at 75 yds as that is what I am doing with the scoped 1903s I am shooting and 50 would give me a more accurate sight picture for the 1917 Iron sights with my eyes.

[Pentz]

I could not resist posting for us cast bullet shooters. My Enfields plop .3105 200-gr 311299s into great groups. In August fired a 10-round 300-yd group into a certified 3.573 group with my older 1917. Yesterday my pristine, original 1919 Winchester 5-groove with just 400 rounds through it so far managed a 100-yd 10-rounder at 1.360". Three-round groups are for play, 10-rounders for real ;-) Try cast, 100 rounds at a session with no flinch or bruising!

[RC20]

Great going. I cast bullets years back, all the mix and issues with getting lead etc pretty well did me off them.

On the other hand I can't see a target worth a hoot at 300 so that leaves me out (unless I put the SK mount on!)

I often shoot 60+ full loads with the FMJs so don't think 100 would botheer me much. for some reason the 1917 shoots good for me, my brother thinks it kicks, go figure.

[Ken in Iowa]

Great shooting Pentz!

I am dabbling with cast in a Krag and a Finnish Mosin.

What is the nose diameter of your 311299s?

[Pentz]

The nose is .3095 ahead of the front band tapering to .300. I'm seating to 3.272 COL. The leader such as it is engraved lightly upon closing of the bolt but usually allows withdrawal. This is in a brand N.O.S. barrel so ymmv.

[RC20]

ymmv or not, that is some great shooting.

I am lucky to get 1 inch at 75 yds. Eyes just are not there for it.

On my best day even with the 1903 sporter and a scope I am lucky to get 5/8 x 5 shot at 100 (our range goes no further) . 10 shots would probably go 1 or 1 1/4.

Lucky for 2 inches in that case at 200

[Phil McGrath]

I could not resist posting for us cast bullet shooters. My Enfields plop .3105 200-gr 311299s into great groups. In August fired a 10-round 300-yd group into a certified 3.573 group with my older 1917. Yesterday my pristine, original 1919 Winchester 5-groove with just 400 rounds through it so far managed a 100-yd 10-rounder at 1.360". Three-round groups are for play, 10-rounders for real ;-) Try cast, 100 rounds at a session with no flinch or bruising!

Is that a Remington 03a3 ?

[bruce]

OK, we had a beautiful time at the range today. My test rounds were as follows;

FA57 GI Match cases- twice fired. CCI #200 primers. 46 gr IMR 4064. Hornady 174 gr .3105" (Actual .310") FMJBT

Test #1 .005" off the lands
Test #2 .025"
Test #3 .035"

I had goofed up on the seating die adjustment and did not load a batch at .015"

Test #1 was a bit odd. Group size was 1.8" with 2 shots in the same hole low and right from the other three. The two low shots were in the 10 ring.
Test #2 was nice. 4 of 5 shots grouped at .7" with 3 of them in the 10 ring. There was one high flyer that opened it up to 1.6".
Test #3 was all over the place. Group size was 3.4" in a vertical string.

I regret not having loaded .015" I suspect the optimal seating depth will be close to that number.

I know what the next test batch will be.

With extreme respect, I've shot a few rifles over the years. Regardless of irons or scope used, the results you list above would give cause to take a look at bedding of the rifle. Have had some experience with the M-1917. Light weight bullets did not produce such nice results as I wanted. Often found that a flat based 180 gr. spitzer or roundnosed bullet gave very excellent results. Distinctly remember one Winchester M-1917 that was so so with most loads tried. Attention to the bedding and a bit of upward pressure under the barrel at the fore end of the stock eliminated issues such as you experienced in test 1,2,3... resulting in consistently round groups. Use of a Hornady 180 gr. RN bullet resulted in consistent sub- 1.5 inch groups for five strings of five shots at 100 yds. firing from a solid sandbag rest. HTH. Sincerely. bruce.

[steved66]

I missed this thread the first time around. Now that it's popped up again I figure I'd add my two cents since I have some experience shooting "fat" bullets in an M1917. My Eddystone with original 7-18 barrel has a bore that is pitted the entire length, which BTW was not in the description on GB. The first time I shot it I used Greek HXP surplus Ball ammo. I literally couldn't hit the 2ft x 3ft target frame at 50yds. Dejected, I got some advice on another forum about using low velocity, oversized cast lead reloads. I found that a .310 or .311 gas checked lead bullet propelled by Alliant 2400 did the trick but it requires the use of a polymer bead filler to keep the gas from cutting past the bullet. The result was a reasonable "plinking" group at 50yds. Along the way I read an entry on the Box-o-Truth website about using a .311 spitzer bullet to coax a respectable group from a pitted M1917 barrel. I was hesitant to try at first, worried about the possibility of high pressure building up behind the oversize copper jacketed bullet. In the end I decided to give it a try after reading about how strong people consider the M1917 action to be (and seeing that the rifle used in the Box-o-Truth article didn't blow up). I made up 20 rounds using neck-sized brass, 180gr Sierra .311 spitzers (303 British marked on the box) and 43gr IMR4895. The result was much better than I expect. At 50yds from the bench with the open sights of the military rifle (not a sporter) I placed 4 shots touching each other with one flier just outside of the group. Below is a picture of the target. Now I can bring my original piece of WWI history to the range and shoot it with confidence at 50yds and ring the gong at 100. Good enough for me.

M1917 target wtih .311 spitzer.jpg

[p246]

Late to thread but I'll add my experience. I'm shooting an 11-18 Eddystone with nos barrel, Canadian lend lease in very good shape. It would not shoot HXP or HPBT SMKs very well when I got it. I'll skip trial and error and go to my winning recipe. .310 Speer FB SPs. HXP brass/trimmed and annealed, primer pockets swaged and pocket based trued. Federal 210 primer. 47 grains varget (2700 to 2725 range on chrono). .2 off rifling. Consistent 2 inch groups at 100 off bag. When the stars aligned a few times I squeezed out a few 5 shot groups approaching 1.5 inches. with the battle peep I use a 6 o'clock hold.

I shoot this rifle in local shoots in WW1 class. I won the match last time out. Only 3 rifles beat me that were shooting open class (bolt military rifles made between 1919 and 1950). 2 03A3's and 1 swiss rifle (The swiss rifle and shooter kicks everyone butt pretty consistently). So far this is the only rifle I own that shoots a SP bullet better than a FMJ. But there are not a lot of options for 150 grain .310 bullets. I should add that this load will not time to ladder sight, as it seems to shoot 6 inches low at 300 and gets worse from there. Our matches are all at 200 so once I got the battle peep on I didn't' really care. Figuring out a sweet spot load for my rifles is as much fun for me as shooting them....most of the time.