Keyhole cause(s)

[Richard H Brown Jr]

Greetings:

What would cause a 1917 to keyhole? Specifically at 15-25yds from the target. See attached url:

http://aepilotjim.blogspot.com/

Not any of mine, as I don't have a 1917 yet... But I'd like some input on what the causes could be.

A little research mentioned, rifleing being copper fouled. The owner of the rifle says the crown and the chamber look good.


RHB

[chuckindenver]

crusty bore.. common with a bunch sold from salute rifles in the past few years,,

[Merc]

We'll never know if the writer cleaned the bore or whether that made a difference. Beyond that, excessive muzzle wear and/or throat erosion are possible causes of keyholing and can be checked by a gunsmith with the proper gauges.

If you're considering buying a '17, you might do well to look for one that was made in 1917. Due to parts interchangeability issues, only those made after January, 1918 were sent to Europe. You stand a better chance of getting a rifle that was used for training purposes instead of war-time service.

[PhillipM]

Time for a new barrel.

[Hecklerusp45]

I have seen keyhole problems like this before that were due to a VERY small burr in the metal at the muzzle. It was impossible to see with the naked eye, but some muzzle repair (buff/polish) fixed the problem.

[Merc]

Agreed - all possibilities (TE, MW, HS, burrs, etc.) should be explored if a rifle isn't shooting properly.

[Fred Pillot]

Winchester made Eddystone?
My Eddystone Eddystone shot pretty much as expected?
Maybe he had a few rounds of 7mm/06.

[joem]

I believe Remington ran the Eddystone plant, maybe I'm mistaken as I have been before.

[Merc]

Remington did run the Eddystone plant.

[Richard H Brown Jr]

Update:

It was a Winchester M1917, and the owner had a smith borescope it, pitted the entire length of the barrel. EXCEPT the Crown and Chamber.

The Shop had a 1918 barrel and quoted $100 for the job, BUT since the original mfr did such a tight job on the assemby, it cost him $120 for busted tools for the shop.

So now he has to see if that cures the problem.

RHB

[Merc]

I'd say your friend got away pretty cheap if that's all he spent although a gunsmith charging a client for broken tools is unusual.

Over-torqued barrels did happen occasionally at Eddystone and some barrel removals resulted in cracked receivers. I don't know if the problem of over-torquing barrels happened at Winchester and Remington but it's possible.

You'd think pitting that's bad enough to cause keyholing would be visible with a bore light.

Update: According to C.S. Ferris' book "United States Rifle Model of 1917" (page 167), the problem of cracked receivers occurred only on Eddystones when being re-barreled. Ferris said over-torqued barrels due to improperly placed index marks were probably at fault.

Merc

[Hecklerusp45]

Let us know how she shoots with the new barrel.

[John Sukey]

Eddystne barrels were installed using a pnuematic wrench rather than a hand operated barrel wrench

[Merc]

Eddystne barrels were installed using a pnuematic wrench rather than a hand operated barrel wrench

The gospel truth according to the Internet: The torque wrench was invented in 1918 so you figure the first working torque wrench probably hit the market by 1919 or 1920 which was much too late for the Eddystone assembly line. The pneumatic torque wrench was invented in Germany in 1980. (Look it up.)

So, measuring the right amount of barrel-receiver torque during the few years that the M1917s were being built was a SWAG. You can understand how the E barrels got over-torqued if indeed they used a pneumatic wrench.

The E receivers have held up well without cracking throughout the war, in the hands of shooters like us and sitting around for 90 plus years, at least until someone tries to unscrew the barrel.

Merc

[PhillipM]

The gospel truth according to the Internet: The torque wrench was invented in 1918 so you figure the first working torque wrench probably hit the market by 1919 or 1920 which was much too late for the Eddystone assembly line. The pneumatic torque wrench was invented in Germany in 1980. (Look it up.)

So, measuring the right amount of barrel-receiver torque during the few years that the M1917s were being built was a SWAG. You can understand how the E barrels got over-torqued if indeed they used a pneumatic wrench.

The E receivers have held up well without cracking throughout the war, in the hands of shooters like us and sitting around for 90 plus years, at least until someone tries to unscrew the barrel.

Merc

I never have understood how a barrel that is tightened to an index mark could be over torqued, be it machine or otherwise.