Barrel replacement comments (Win. / Criterion)

**pickax** · 07-09-2016, 04:16

Interesting conundrum Dave. I have some questions about your rifle description first. The Canadians purchased rifles in 1940, then gave to the Danes after the war. Later imported by CAI in the '60s. OGEK rebuilds were during WWII, so a OGEK stock would be wrong for the time period. Also, I would think the American arsenals would replace a poor barrel and park it along with the receiver.
The above leads me to think someone other than the Government has altered the rifle. In that case, a new barrel to give the old girl a new life sounds like a good plan.
A question for more experienced members. Were Winchester barrels numbered to a receiver? I can't find a reference to it in Ferris' book, and doubt it, but?

**FCPDAVE** · 07-10-2016, 06:24

Hi,
My comment about the OGEK marked low number '03 was in the context that all of my 03's have nice or better bbl's. and the 1917 bugs me because it doesn't. Unfortunately, that OGEK with the low serial no. won't be fired, despite it's new bbl.

The 1917 stock is marked PWR for Prince of Wales Rifles and only had traces of red paint it. It also came with an old leather service sling (brass hooks). I've read that CAI removed the bolts and shipped the rifles w/o them in order to save on import fees (parts vs firearms). May or may not be true.

I ordered the Criterion bbl. and will keep the W barrel. Wish I knew what those 106xxx numbers on the barrel are.

Dave

**pickax** · 07-11-2016, 12:01

My bad on the Stock, I misread that. Ferris' book mentions the bolt separation from the rifles during import also, so likely true. Mine is a mismatch also, but luckily is a W bolt at least. Hard to say who would park just the receiver though, mystery of life I guess.
A lot of folks discount these rifles heavily due to the import stamp, but it doesn't bother me in this case. Just adds to the provenance.
Maybe someone will still comment on the barrel, in the mean time, enjoy the new one!

**Col. Colt** · 07-12-2016, 04:44

My first question is always, how does it shoot now? I've seen some pretty bad bores shoot very well with ammo they liked... CC

**Merc** · 07-12-2016, 07:06

Originally posted by Col. Colt

My first question is always, how does it shoot now? I've seen some pretty bad bores shoot very well with ammo they liked... CC

Dave,

CC has a good point. Assuming your M1917 safe to shoot, try firing it a few times and see how accurate it is. A barrel with worn lands may also have throat and/or muzzle erosion which will affect accuracy.

Merc

**FCPDAVE** · 07-13-2016, 09:15

It shoots about 5" at 50 yds. I've been looking at old sporter stocks, thinking that I might want to see how well it can shoot with the Criterion bbl. and some bedding. Gunsmith thinks I'm nuts to think that someone might want to do that. But, short of another butt plate, I have enough R and E parts to outfit a cut down military stock.

Pickax - while searching online for a sporter stock, I found one that the seller said was marked OGEK, and it was. He described it as a 1917 stock tough the picture showed a magic markered 03 A3 (it was an '03).

**Merc** · 07-13-2016, 10:52

Dave,

Hobbies are rarely cheap and part of the fun is meeting the challenges that present themselves. People who own and restore old cars would understand perfectly. If a new barrel satisfies you, then I say go for it. Find yourself a gunsmith that thinks like you.

Merc

**dave** · 07-13-2016, 07:15

You said you would not fire it, despite the new barrel, so why bother and pay for it? I have been collecting old military rifles for years, many have original barrels which are in bad condition. That's part of the game, when I buy something I need for collection now, I don't even glance at the bore. Do little shooting anymore but if I do I have enough good bores to choose from. I may have 50-60 .22 RF in collection also, never look at those bores either have only one with a rough bore, made in 1920's before 'Kleen Bore' ammo. The general condition tho is excellent.
But that's just the way I look at it.
But you have already bought the barrel so I think your mind is made up and you are just looking for confirmation.

**Merc** · 07-14-2016, 05:22

Originally posted by dave

You said you would not fire it, despite the new barrel, so why bother and pay for it? I have been collecting old military rifles for years, many have original barrels which are in bad condition. That's part of the game, when I buy something I need for collection now, I don't even glance at the bore. Do little shooting anymore but if I do I have enough good bores to choose from. I may have 50-60 .22 RF in collection also, never look at those bores either have only one with a rough bore, made in 1920's before 'Kleen Bore' ammo. The general condition tho is excellent.
But that's just the way I look at it.
But you have already bought the barrel so I think your mind is made up and you are just looking for confirmation.

Dave,

At the end of the day, I think FCPDave just wants all his rifles to have good bores and is willing to pay to accomplish this goal. He says he does shoot them so it might be worth it to shoot the '17 with a new barrel. He already has the replacement, so why not try it?

My early '17 Winchester came with a very minty barrel and I do enjoy shooting it. The degree of accuracy it achieves at 100 yards with the original open sights is amazing and probably comparable to a new rifle. Now, replacing a military stock on a '17 with a sporter isn't something I'd do, but that's just me.

Merc

**pickax** · 07-15-2016, 07:55

Originally posted by FCPDAVE

It shoots about 5" at 50 yds. I've been looking at old sporter stocks, thinking that I might want to see how well it can shoot with the Criterion bbl. and some bedding. Gunsmith thinks I'm nuts to think that someone might want to do that. But, short of another butt plate, I have enough R and E parts to outfit a cut down military stock.

Pickax - while searching online for a sporter stock, I found one that the seller said was marked OGEK, and it was. He described it as a 1917 stock tough the picture showed a magic markered 03 A3 (it was an '03).

Ogden under Elmer Keith, and Ed Klouser did rebuild '17s for WWII My mixmaster Eddystone is an example.
Give us a report on your sporter conversion when you finish it up.

**dave** · 07-15-2016, 10:31

Originally posted by Merc

Dave,

At the end of the day, I think FCPDave just wants all his rifles to have good bores and is willing to pay to accomplish this goal. He says he does shoot them so it might be worth it to shoot the '17 with a new barrel. He already has the replacement, so why not try it?

My early '17 Winchester came with a very minty barrel and I do enjoy shooting it. The degree of accuracy it achieves at 100 yards with the original open sights is amazing and probably comparable to a new rifle. Now, replacing a military stock on a '17 with a sporter isn't something I'd do, but that's just me.

Merc

Well as I am primarily a collector I guess I was only thinking about value. If he was using a military barrel that would be different, even tho it would not be original, rifles were rebuilt. But as I said 'just me'. Threw it out there as something to think about.

**FCPDAVE** · 07-23-2016, 12:57

Don't worry - the rifle won't be ruined or anything like that. The W barrel will stay with the rifle. If I get a sporter stock, it will be low dollar with my extra parts, and only to shoot to check how well it can shoot. That stock will stay with the rifle also, as well as the orig. sling and a Can. marked bayonet/scabbard.

I can understand collecting these rifles w/o regard to bore condition though since more than a few friends said I was crazy to want to change out the barrel just to make it shoot better. Thinking back, I wish that I had concentrated on just a few interesting rifles. Here I am with 7.7 Jap., 6.5 Carcano, 8mm Mauser, 30.06, .30 40 Krag, 45.70, 7.62 NATO, 5.56 NATO, .303 Brit., 7.5 French, 7.5 Swiss, 8mm rimmed, 7.62x39, 7.62x54 and .30 Carbine - just for rifles. I was working my way around the world. Now I can't even decide what to shoot. Not a good plan after all.

**Merc** · 07-24-2016, 07:36

Impressive collection. If you're reconsidering replacing the barrel, I'd pick out a few of the rifles that are in the best shape and let those be the ones that you take to the range. It's always more fun when you can actually hit what you're aiming for. Both groups have value. Rifles with worn bolt lugs and shot-out barrels have a history to consider. How valuable would any rifle be if it was used in a major battle even if it's no longer capable of shooting accurately?

Head space gauges aren't expensive and there are simple ways to measure throat wear mentioned throughout this forum that will help you to determine the condition of your rifles. Let the worn rifles become the wall hangers.

Merc

**FCPDAVE** · 08-21-2016, 10:29

BIG PROBLEM - After I bought the Criterion bbl., I took everything to the gunsmith. Yesterday I stopped by and he gave everything back to me saying that because of a clarification of some sort of rules (he is FFL folder) he is not able to install my bbl. He said that he would need a manufacturer's license to set the head space (it's short chambered) and it's too expensive for the work he does (he is a part time gunsmith). Does this sound right? I sent an email to Criterion but haven't heard back yet. Originally, he told me that he's done a no. of these and he wrote a work order for it. Previously he built a nice AK for me so he knows that I pay my bills w/o complaint.

Barrel replacement comments (Win. / Criterion)

Barrel replacement comments (Win. / Criterion)

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