WWII Ithaca M37 - Was it a Training Shotgun ?

[John Mello]

Hey scosgt,
I found a photo that shows the gouge marks near the serial number.

The sun came out a little today so I went outside to take some new photographs
of the current "Reigning Queen" of my martial arms.
I wanted to see the whole gun and the colorful grain in the stock.
M37 serial No. .jpgM37 left long SUN .jpgM37 right long SUN .jpgM37 right butt .jpgM37 left butt .jpg
Almost got it.

Thanks,
Stay Well,
jm

[7.62match]

Tom , Can you check serial No. 48603 , it has the same markings on the receiver that John Mello described on his shotgun . Mine has matching Ser. No. on barrel and receiver , no choke markings , " P " proof on barrel and barrel is 20" in length . Thank you . Carl

[scosgt]

I suspect the gouge marks are from where the barrel was held in a vice to install the choke.

[Tom Doniphon]

Tom , Can you check serial No. 48603 , it has the same markings on the receiver that John Mello described on his shotgun . Mine has matching Ser. No. on barrel and receiver , no choke markings , " P " proof on barrel and barrel is 20" in length . Thank you . Carl

Carl, 48603 was shipped to Springfield Armory on Dec. 19, 1941. It was part of a 291 gun shipment, all of which were 12 gage 30 inch full choke barrel Model 37 shotguns.

Can you post any photos of the gun including the martial markings? And, what kind of proof tested mark is on the barrel? Is it the one with the word "Proof" in a semi-circle above the word "Tested", are the words "Proof Tested' part of the barrel address, or is there only a P proof mark? Thanks.

[Tom Doniphon]

I suspect the gouge marks are from where the barrel was held in a vice to install the choke.

Maybe so. But, did you notice that the font style of the serial number on the barrel does not match the style of the number on the receiver? Maybe it's a replacement barrel that has been renumbered to the receiver.

[scosgt]

Quite possible, and that would not be factory based on what I have observed.

[Tom Doniphon]

The subject gun has the semi-circle "Proof Tested" barrel mark. I know that mark was used post WWII up until around the early 1960s. I am checking sources to see if it was used prior to WWII. I don't believe any of the Military contract guns have that mark on the barrel. If that mark was not used pre WWII, that would confirm that it is a later replacement barrel.

[John Mello]

The Subject Guns Barrel in Question.
M37 Barrel markings .jpgM37 serial No. .jpg

Marks on Receiver.
M37 left side .jpgM37 R.L.B. + Ord Bomb + P .jpg

jm

[scosgt]

WWIIIth.jpgWWIIItha.jpgWWIIITHB.jpg

Here is my unmolested gun from the same batch
You are quite correct about the barrel, it is NOT original to the gun.

[John Mello]

Hey scosgt,
That is a very nice looking long gun you have there.
Do all the Ithaca M37 30 inch barreled Training Shotguns you have seen from this 1941
commercial to military transition period, have the Checkered Fore End Grip like yours?

If the barrels with the word of curved type over a word of straight type,
reading " PROOF " (over) " TESTED " are not of the era, then it looks bad.
Why would a bubba bother to number the barrel for a home replacement job?
Unless evil motives were the reason. As in FAKE!

I'm not too disappointed about the replacement barrel.
Kind of Nice that it's Not the Butchered Original.
It's a a good Ithaca barrel. And still worth the $50 bucks i paid.
And dose not alter the fact that This Ithaca M37 serial No. 50842 shipped from The Ithaca Gun Co. N.Y.
to The Springfield Armory, Mass., on Dec. 12, 1941, the same week as The Attack on Pearl Harbor.

Thanks for Everyones Help and Input. An Invaluable Source of Information.

Take Care,
Stay Well,
jm

[scosgt]

The wood is the same on all the 30" guns of the era, even post War.
The barrel was probably installed by a gunsmith. It is not that unusual for barrels to be swapped in the military, but in these early guns they are hand fitted, and dangerous to swap due to headspace. Someplace on the forum I posted an Ithaca Gun Company warning about that.
So my best guess is that a gunsmith fitted the barrel and choke, and marked the barrel to indicate it was safe.
That round proof mark does not appear on the military guns, so your barrel may be post War.

[Tom Doniphon]

Checking with some sources, Walt Snyder's book on Ithaca shotgun says the semi-circle Proof Tested mark was added either just before or after WWII. Some collectors with both pre-War and post War Model 37s said their pre-War guns do not have the semi-circle proof mark whereas the early post-War guns do.

[7.62match]

Tom, I have no way of posting pictures but my shotgun looks exactly like scosgt gun , but with a 20" barrel.

[scosgt]

Tom, I have no way of posting pictures but my shotgun looks exactly like scosgt gun , but with a 20" barrel.

Most likely cut down. There were records of two "riot" guns that apparently were shipped without adapters, but if memory serves there were actually 22"?
AFAIK in 40 years of collecting there are no 20" guns with the United States Property marks that would be original.
No one really wanted these guns after WWII and many were converted to sporting configurations.

[John Mello]

Here are more marks I found in the barrel that may or may not make any difference.
I took the barrel off to photograph.
What I described as gouges are punch marks, straight down.
Under more magnification than seen here, I can see the walls of each character cave in on itself.
It's a 5 digit number, 47648.
M37 punch mks + wittness mk .jpg
It's not the same font, as the 4's don't have the serifs that the 4 below it dose.

Also between the threads is a Ithaca mark I've seen in C.W. Clawson's book on 1911's.
on pg 55, Fig. 41. Looks like the first one in the row.
M37 mark between threads .jpg

I thought you'd want all the dope.

Thanks,
jm