Commercial Trench with Brass Buttplate

[scosgt]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=351415690

This gun is the real deal - MAYBE

I love the brass buttplate, but there are two problems:

1. The bayonet adapter is WWI marked. My understanding is that on a gun with an 858K serial, the adapter should be a 6 row unmarked, no patent dates. As well, it probably should be cut for the 1895 Russian Musket bayonet. Winchester had run out of M1917 bayonets, and substituted the Russian bayonet, but the lug needed an additional cut machined in to accommodate the lock.

2. In picture #3, I think I can see the "pinch marks" on the barrel for a barrel band. That would be wrong on a trench.

What does everyone think?

[Tom Doniphon]

I've got in my data base about a half dozen of these commercial trench guns in the 800,000 serial number range with brass buttplates. All but one have WWI marked bayo adaptors. Some have the "Pat Appl" marked adaptor and the others have the "Pat Jan 15 & Mar 19, 1918" mark.

[scosgt]

I've got in my data base about a half dozen of these commercial trench guns in the 800,000 serial number range with brass buttplates. All but one have WWI marked bayo adaptors. Some have the "Pat Appl" marked adaptor and the others have the "Pat Jan 15 & Mar 19, 1918" mark.

Good to know. I thought they ran out of them earlier than that.
I still think I see a pinch mark on the barrel, which would not be right.

[SPEEDGUNNER]

I like it. Rack number on right side is typical of these guns, and matches up font wise with others I have seen. The discoloration in the wood in front of the buttplate is consistent as well.

I would like to see the bayonet lug, and the the top of the barrel showing the front sight. Is barrel drilled for sight bead and filled?









There should also be a 2-digit year date visible above the mag tube at the breech end of the barrel.


I think we need more pictures, or answers, before blessing this one...

[trenchcrazy]

More pics are up!!

[SPEEDGUNNER]

WOW! It went to the third overtime before someone got nervous and punched the Buy-It-Now! That $4300 seemed like a real stretch when the auction started. Was it one of you guys here?

Who else wants one? I keep them as truck guns, the brass buttplates hold up well in the rack behind the seat...



Would the man who REALLY shot Liberty Valance please send me an e-mail?

[colt thompson]

I went to $4000 which was more than I wanted to
Brian

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Brian,

I was tempted, but I doubt I will be able to track them all down so why do I need another one? These are an EXTREMELY rare variation of the Winchester 97 trench, and these rack numbered guns may be the entire run. I wish I knew how many there were, what is the highest number? This is the first one I have seen ID'd to a PD. I always thought they may be prison guns. I thought the price was salty for a non-martially marked gun, but it is good to see that collectors finally realize how desirable this obscure variation really is. Well bought.

[scosgt]

I thought they were prison guns too.
Colorado or something.
Now the buyer needs to track down an 1895 Russian Musket bayonet.

[Tom Doniphon]

The ones I have data on all have similar rack numbers on them with the highest one being #71. It's owned by a fellow collector.

[scosgt]

A year or so ago I posted something on a forum about trench guns with brass buttplates. I was called a liar!

[SPEEDGUNNER]

So we know there are at least 71? Wouldn't you just love to find out the history?

[Dave L]

That fellow collector told me the russian bayonet he got with the gun has the number 71 stamped on it.
Anyone else have a numbered russian bayonets to the gun.

Dave L

[glindes]

Speedgunner,

I have a parkerized Model 97 Riot that has the right side of the receiver stamped ANJPD, I assume it means some New Jersey Police Department...FYI 'Lots of towns in NJ start with an "A". Geoff in DE