Issue Ammo at CMP National Games

[Maury Krupp]

Heard some rumblings at the Western Games about the cost of the issue Hornady ammo.

Giving each entrant $60 worth of ammo for a $50 entry fee has got to be losing CMP money.

The solution would seem to be either raising entry fees to cover or doing away with it.

So how important is the issue ammo to you?

Maury

[John Kepler]

You already know my answer......I'd prefer shooting ammo off my own bench (more "piece-of-mind"). At 200 yds, ammo cannot add, it can only subtract (use the HXP debacle as your model!), so no real impact on the spirit of the competition. But that's me. I fear it would be a terrible burden on some of the more "casual" shooters. An increase in the entry with ammo and the option of "rolling your own" at a reduced fee may be the way to go.

[CMP Shooter]

For us reloaders, issue ammo isn't important at all. For non-reloaders, I imagine they appreciate the opportunity to shoot the Hornady ammo instead of HXP. If the CMP ever allows handloads in lieu of issued ammo, those that can't reload will assume that we are producing 1/2 MOA ammo that can't miss the ten ring. There'll be lots of hollering that we have an unfair advantage. I certainly wouldn't do anything to disabuse them of that notion.
FWIW, in a conversation I had with a CMP person at the Eastern Games he indicated that eventually they might start issuing the 150 gr., FMJ Hornady ammo to keep costs down.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I'm with John Kepler, a two tier pricing method would work and keep the budget out of the red. The only reason I can think that they should keep this pricing is to encourage new shooters, the ammo is a "loss leader."

[MikeT]

I will be the dissenting voice here. For the CMP Games matches, everyone should be shooting the same ammo. This levels playing field and is in keeping with the spirit of the matches. These matches are suppose to be "as issued" and fun. If you really need the last ounce of accuracy in each shot, stick with the NRA matches.

I saw a few points difference in scores between the HXP and Hornady ammo. Saw no difference between them as far as function goes, both worked fine. I can take it or leave it.

[PhillipM]

For us reloaders, issue ammo isn't important at all. For non-reloaders, I imagine they appreciate the opportunity to shoot the Hornady ammo instead of HXP. If the CMP ever allows handloads in lieu of issued ammo, those that can't reload will assume that we are producing 1/2 MOA ammo that can't miss the ten ring. There'll be lots of hollering that we have an unfair advantage. I certainly wouldn't do anything to disabuse them of that notion.
FWIW, in a conversation I had with a CMP person at the Eastern Games he indicated that eventually they might start issuing the 150 gr., FMJ Hornady ammo to keep costs down.

Locally the match director limits handloads to hunting bullets, no match grade. I guess he has no experience with a Nosler ballistic tip.

[Allen Humphrey]

Personally, I like having all the same ammo across the board, but I'd be perfectly happy with lower cost round. The Hornady shot great for me. My 03 does NOT like HXP as some batches are long and chamber very hard, so I don't think that is a great alternative. It would be dissapointing to incurr all the costs of getting to Phoenix and then get issued some 40 year old ammo that wont chamber or go bang. Flying with my own ammo would be a huge pain when combined with the rest of my gear since the airlines charge so much for baggage (and weight overages) I would be satisfied if I could purchase the Hornady (or equal) on site.

[Plain Old Dave]

Any safe ammo is allowed for all other CMP sponsored matches; why should CMP Games be any different? All or none; go back to issuing ammo at the line for leg matches or allow any safe ammo for all CMP sanctioned competition.

[collectorm1ca]

Looks like it has been decided.

From the 2012 Eastern Games sign up:

"Please note competitors will have to supply their own ammunitition for all events including the GSM matches. The CMP will have ammunitition for sale, at a discount (for competitors only) to purchase for the Garand, Springfield and Carbine matches."

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchInfo.cgi?matchID=7812

Roll your own, bring commercial/surplus or buy there from CMP.

Just checked and same thing goes for the Oklahoma Games.

[rickgman]

The thought that issued ammo "levels the playing field" is a figment of one's imagination. There are so many other facts that influence one's performance that the contribution of ammo is largely lost in the mix. Rick

[M1CHAZZ]

Two tier pricing is the way to go. Also 30-06 Surplus is drying up .

[rickgman]

Gentlemen, Being able to buy ammo at the match from the CMP effectively is two tier pricing. You may choose to buy or not to buy. Rick

[Plain Old Dave]

I think what he's driving at is as follows:

Instead of CMP charging the same price as last year and not providing ammo, they should lower the entry fee somewhat and have ammunition available for sale for those that want it at additional cost.

Which I don't agree with. One of the last bits of the old DCM heritage was 'no reloads, issue ammo only'. That was always the dividing line between NRA matches and DCM matches; DCM provided ammo, NRA didn't.

[rickgman]

Dave, The old DCM is long gone. It was subsidized by tax dollars and that will never again happen. It is now history. The current CMP EIC matches does not offer issued ammo. It is obvious that the CMP needs to raise its match fees for the "as-issue" matches based on their documented expenses. Since the fees can be held to a lower price if ammo is not issued and some shooters would rather not use issued ammo, it seems the CMP took the best overall approach - even if it is not a thrilling proposition to some. For those who wish to use the Hornady ammo, the CMP offers it for sale at a very attracitive price. Rick

[Johnny in Texas]

Ammo may separate the top10 or 20 shooters in an event at 200 yrds. The rifle and shooter play a much larger role. I think they made the right decision make select ammo affordable but don't require it. That is the American way.