Interesting article, 99% union dues go to Libs

[1903fan]

One easy way to MAGA would be to make the entire nation right-to-work and make Unions into social clubs, and that is it!

[dave]

Dave, now you've done it. Even though what you say is true there are others here who have been indoctrinated into the "anti-union anything" camp. Expect some backlash over your words. For me, on this board, in this teeny tiny corner of the world, it isn't worth the argument. No matter what, the response is always the same old condescending rhetoric. A few will make valid counter points, but just a few.

FWIW, the closed shops were done away with long ago. What people are calling "closed shops" today aren't remotely closed as they were up through the 60's and into the 70's. Back in those days a person couldn't get into a union unless a member would vouch for them and an employer agreed to sponsor. Back then I couldn't get into the union unless I had a job, and couldn't get a job without being a union member.
The closed shop has been gone for decades but folks still bitch about it.

I was referring to the Government or law definitions. Under Fed. law a closed shop is merely one where you have to be a union member before you can be hired. The other requirements you mention I never heard of and may be the reason closed shops are illegal. Jobs where you go from employer to employer on a regular basis(construction, wait staff, etc.)are still legal but only in the sense I said. I have been out of the game for 20 years now so maybe things have changed, but I doubt that it has.
I guess you are correct tho, most who post here do not know the laws as concern Unions and employers. How many types of Unions are there? Well there are 4, and the Company MUST agree as to which one you want, it becomes part of the contract. So it is not all the Unions fault, If you do not like the type you have get your Union to go for a different one! You want no Union at all? Get a job in the south or go to work for the japs!

[dave]

Closed shops are long gone, but there's still plenty to bitch about in states without right-to-work laws, where workers aren't compelled to join the union, but ARE compelled to pay union dues if they want to work in union-controlled trades. If that was not true, why would there even be a need for right-to-work laws?

What you refer to is an Agency Shop, which I mentioned above. The union can charge dues to a non-union worker BUT only in the amount of costs for negotiating, grievance's, (Unions are required to take grievance's from non-members and its in their interest to do so) and such, as benefits the worker. They are supposed to offer proof of these costs, but seldom do, as no one checks on them!

[1903fan]

What you refer to is an Agency Shop, which I mentioned above. The union can charge dues to a non-union worker BUT only in the amount of costs for negotiating, grievance's, (Unions are required to take grievance's from non-members and its in their interest to do so) and such, as benefits the worker. They are supposed to offer proof of these costs, but seldom do, as no one checks on them!

Unbelievable in America we allow these communist unions to charge good folk out there fees for nothing. They brainwash their workers because they know they don't have much education, and then they order them to vote a certain way! Horrible.

[dave]

I just explained what the Unions charge non-members for, what the hell don't you understand? I was a 'worker' my whole life and resent you saying I did not have much education (in other words workers are stupid)! They may 'order' them to vote a certain way but can not follow them into the vote booth! What communist liberal college did you come from? you must have been in one because you certainly do not consider yourself a 'ignorant worker', I'm sure! And talk about "brain washing", I went thru two NLRB elections, to join a different Union. We lost but got the second election because the Company had their supervisor taking members aside and feeding them 'brain washing BS'. That is a no-no and NLRB nullified the first vote. I was a union officer for 16 years and know of what I speak.
So what are your qualifications to speak on this subject? I guess JB is correct, useless to argue with closed minded people! Unions are and never were perfect, some are/were down right crooked but they did get workers out of the tyrannical grip most companies had on their workers. Read about what pre-union old man Ford made his workers live by. He sent company enforcers to their homes, in non-work hours, find a beer there and you were out and you better attend church (and more)!

[leftyo]

ive worked both union and non union. to be honest i hate the union. there was definately a time for them and they did a lot of good. unfortunately that hasnt been the case for a very long time.

[1903fan]

I just explained what the Unions charge non-members for, what the hell don't you understand? I was a 'worker' my whole life and resent you saying I did not have much education (in other words workers are stupid)! They may 'order' them to vote a certain way but can not follow them into the vote booth! What communist liberal college did you come from? you must have been in one because you certainly do not consider yourself a 'ignorant worker', I'm sure! And talk about "brain washing", I went thru two NLRB elections, to join a different Union. We lost but got the second election because the Company had their supervisor taking members aside and feeding them 'brain washing BS'. That is a no-no and NLRB nullified the first vote. I was a union officer for 16 years and know of what I speak.
So what are your qualifications to speak on this subject? I guess JB is correct, useless to argue with closed minded people! Unions are and never were perfect, some are/were down right crooked but they did get workers out of the tyrannical grip most companies had on their workers. Read about what pre-union old man Ford made his workers live by. He sent company enforcers to their homes, in non-work hours, find a beer there and you were out and you better attend church (and more)!

You were forced to work for a company that made "enforcers" follow you home at night and see if you had beer? Please since you are so smart, tell us all about the tyrannical companies you had to work for! We are waiting.

[dave]

I was not around back in Henry Fords day. My father worked for the railroad, had layovers in towns, while working freight trains. They could not even eat in a restraint that served booze. That was a big part of the RR dicks job, to check on workers at these layovers! This was back in the 30's. You ever hear of Harry Bennet? Do a 'lil Google search, learn something.
leftyo: Weather Unions are needed to-day is another question. If they were outlawed who can say what would happen? As it is, R.to W. laws let the workers decide. If enough members drop out they will have to reform or change. If they charge full dues to non-members, file a complaint with the NLRB.
I had a salary position the last 10 yrs. I worked (same company) so have seen both sides.
With that, I am done arguing with closed minds! Have a good day!

[1903fan]

A man that approves of works for an institution that orders him and the rest of the underlings how to vote, where to shop, and even what to buy has the stones to call us closed minds! It sounds to me his mind has been closed from the beginning and he is afraid to see the truth! This despite admitting he has NEVER been persecuted by any companies, and the only reason he can give for unions being needed are stories from century ago!

It is scary opening your mind but maybe if the union people take a few basic business or economic courses at their community colleges with all the generous time off they have during paid layoffs and easy work hours they will LEARN the unions are killing this nation!

[JB White]

Paid layoffs? Easy work hours?? You learned THAT at your community college? You were ripped off. Speaking of indoctrinated!

Like Dave I worked both sides. Took a salaried position in 1979 when my trade (dealership mechanic) took a dump. Spent seven years learning how corporations will show profit for stockholders at the employees expense. Instead of cutting our bonus during a tough year they would limit raises to 2% or nothing while at the same time cutting the insurance the families needed. Oh, the offer to work more hours was there when they cut the paid rate for some. (Hell, why not work them around the clock 24/7 for free?)
After seven years I decided I was on the wrong side. Sure, I was considered "white collar" but I still depended on someone else for a paycheck. There was no contract and what incentive the employer offered, the employer would certainly take away.
Left that and apprenticed as a UNION commercial carpenter. Then applied my former automotive skills and cross trained as a millwright so I always had another option during slow times. NOT ONCE did I ever receive "layoff pay" nor was I ever paid for a holiday.
When I got married Turner Construction paid me while on honeymoon as a wedding present. That was NOT in any union agreement. Nor was my pay rate above union scale. Nor were any of the other perks I got along the way until retirement. I got them because I worked my damned ass off and the company gave them to me.

When I went down and had to learn to walk again, the UNION was there for me. I didn't take a dive on the job so no workmans comp. My insurance was in full effect. I got DISABILITY PAY (not layoff pay) from the union for the year until I was back on my feet again. They then put me to work on short calls where I was able to work my way back into the system. I didn't lose my house and my kids finished college. We had to run lean for several years just like anyone else but we weren't devastated.
That's just one reason I paid my union dues on time.

Now, regarding "layoff pay". In some locals the members have decided to contribute to a fund THEY set up. THEY pay into it each week. Some call it layoff pay. Others call it vacation pay. Some call it an emergency trust. Doesn't matter what they call it or what they use it for. It's the MEMBERS fund built on MEMBERS own contributions with THEIR OWN money which is invested for interest. In other areas housewives pay into a Christmas Fund. Is all that so wrong?

Like Dave, I too took some courses in Management/Labor relations. Guess what? I went to those classes on behalf of both sides of the bargaining table depending upon who and what they wanted me to learn. I obviously got a helluva lot more out that than you did at your community college. For starters I know what business needs to stay alive and I know what Joe Average needs. That's why demands from both sides are often ridiculous and need to be compromised at the bargaining table....or on the golf course.

[rayg]

Interesting article, 99% union dues go to Libs

This is article was not about whether or not unions were good or bad. It's how they use the employees money to go to leftist organizations which go against some employees political leanings. I was union and management in my time. I saw how my local got me rasises and but also saw how they protected the least productive workers which cost the company or in my last employ as a admistrator in a county govnt agency poor performance and excess tax payer costs..

[clintonhater]

I was not around back in Henry Fords day. My father worked for the railroad, had layovers in towns, while working freight trains. They could not even eat in a restraint that served booze.

Ridiculous the RR might be concerned about liquored-up workers. Jeez, where can you find an eatery that doesn't serve booze?

For sure, Ford was a radical Puritan, paternalist, and anti-Semite, who made life hardest of all for his only son Edsel, who suffered from stomach ulcers brought on by his father's harassment, until one of them perforated and he died in his 40s. In his later yrs, especially as competition from other automakers intensified, Ford became increasingly irrational, but try to remember that in 1916, with no agitation from unions, he doubled his workers' wages, and gave them a 40 hr. work-week, when 9-10 hrs/day was the industry average; for quite a few yrs, he was the "working man's hero."

[1903fan]

Paid layoffs? Easy work hours?? You learned THAT at your community college? You were ripped off. Speaking of indoctrinated!

Like Dave I worked both sides. Took a salaried position in 1979 when my trade (dealership mechanic) took a dump. Spent seven years learning how corporations will show profit for stockholders at the employees expense. Instead of cutting our bonus during a tough year they would limit raises to 2% or nothing while at the same time cutting the insurance the families needed. Oh, the offer to work more hours was there when they cut the paid rate for some. (Hell, why not work them around the clock 24/7 for free?)
After seven years I decided I was on the wrong side. Sure, I was considered "white collar" but I still depended on someone else for a paycheck. There was no contract and what incentive the employer offered, the employer would certainly take away.
Left that and apprenticed as a UNION commercial carpenter. Then applied my former automotive skills and cross trained as a millwright so I always had another option during slow times. NOT ONCE did I ever receive "layoff pay" nor was I ever paid for a holiday.
When I got married Turner Construction paid me while on honeymoon as a wedding present. That was NOT in any union agreement. Nor was my pay rate above union scale. Nor were any of the other perks I got along the way until retirement. I got them because I worked my damned ass off and the company gave them to me.

When I went down and had to learn to walk again, the UNION was there for me. I didn't take a dive on the job so no workmans comp. My insurance was in full effect. I got DISABILITY PAY (not layoff pay) from the union for the year until I was back on my feet again. They then put me to work on short calls where I was able to work my way back into the system. I didn't lose my house and my kids finished college. We had to run lean for several years just like anyone else but we weren't devastated.
That's just one reason I paid my union dues on time.

Now, regarding "layoff pay". In some locals the members have decided to contribute to a fund THEY set up. THEY pay into it each week. Some call it layoff pay. Others call it vacation pay. Some call it an emergency trust. Doesn't matter what they call it or what they use it for. It's the MEMBERS fund built on MEMBERS own contributions with THEIR OWN money which is invested for interest. In other areas housewives pay into a Christmas Fund. Is all that so wrong?

Like Dave, I too took some courses in Management/Labor relations. Guess what? I went to those classes on behalf of both sides of the bargaining table depending upon who and what they wanted me to learn. I obviously got a helluva lot more out that than you did at your community college. For starters I know what business needs to stay alive and I know what Joe Average needs. That's why demands from both sides are often ridiculous and need to be compromised at the bargaining table....or on the golf course.

Who said anything about ME going to community college? I knew if I wanted to get out of the hood I was on the job in high school, and got a scholarship to a proper university. You coming in here with all that socialist union nonsense saying you know a thing or two about business because you supposedly worked a "WHITE COLLAR" entry level job... puhhhlease!
Unions wouldn't hire my kin for a long time because they are racist, don't try to pretend otherwise you were there. Don't try to tell me that they don't pay auto workers ninety percent of their rates during shutdowns, bleeding companies dry and in turn making us lose jobs overseas. I have family in Detroit, do you? The unions destroyed that city.

[RED]

Who said anything about ME going to community college? I knew if I wanted to get out of the hood I was on the job in high school, and got a scholarship to a proper university. You coming in here with all that socialist union nonsense saying you know a thing or two about business because you supposedly worked a "WHITE COLLAR" entry level job... puhhhlease!
Unions wouldn't hire my kin for a long time because they are racist, don't try to pretend otherwise you were there. Don't try to tell me that they don't pay auto workers ninety percent of their rates during shutdowns, bleeding companies dry and in turn making us lose jobs overseas. I have family in Detroit, do you? The unions destroyed that city.

I have to agree with 1903 on this he is 100% right... Union members seem to think they are the blue collar workers and that is a sham. They are the elite and call the shots. I recall a situation where there was a union only skyscraper project in a big city. The Ironworkers took lunch at 11:00, the Laborers went to lunch at 12:00 and the operators did lunch at 1:00. No work was done between 11:00AM and 2:00PM.

I personally suffered the wrath of unionists. I sold spices... and was very proficient in setting up spice sections in large grocery stores. I arrived at a new Schunck's store set up in St. Louis at 0630. I built the 18' section from scratch. Put the store shelves in place and the spice racks on those shelves and began stocking some of the 1,100 different herbs, spices, extracts, and mixes and their varying sizes. At 9:AM the union workers showed up. They told me I couldn't stock shelves etc. So they dumped hundreds of small tins, bottles and 1oz boxes into shopping carts and knocked down the shelves. Since they had not even a clue how to set the section, they sat on their butts while I put the shelves back up and sorted out hundreds of mixed up little bitty boxes. tins, and bottles. Left alone I would have been done by noon... with the union's help I finished at 7:30 PM while they went home at 5:00 PM and did nothing all day.

Back in the early years, unions were a good thing but then the gangsters took over, and trust me, Jimmy Hoffa was just a minor leaguer compared to some of the other union hierarchy.